*** Official Clevo X170SM-G/Sager NP9670M Owner's Lounge ***

Reality is none of these machines are perfect, they individually get some things right but, knowing your machines shortcomings and actually improving on them, is more rewarding than simply talking trash while sniffing your own farts.

 

I agree. That's why I keep bouncing around keeping tabs on a few laptops currently. Gotta weigh the pros and cons and go for what works best. Or pass on what I find to someone that's looking for answers.

 

Changed what components ?

 

Hello!
Does anyone know the specs of the 240 Hz display?
Type? TN or IPS?
Brand and/or model number?
Response time? (Gray2gray and black2white?

144 Hz panel in P775TM1-G has 20 ms g2g and 10ms b2w which can cause minor blurring/microstutter during fast movement in gray areas.

Will the 240 Hz panel or the 144 Hz panel be faster in this laptop? Or its using the same 144Hz AUO panel and the 240 Hz panel will not be better either because it will ahve higher refresh rate but the same (slow) response time?

Thank you!

 

One of the best quotes of the year!

 

You guys I’m going to pre order my X170SM-G today. What CPU should I get?

 

If you want to buy it for gaming -> 10600K

If you want it for gaming but have some extra buck and want it to be slighly more future proof -> 10700K

If you are rich and just want to burn money and doesn't even want to play on this laptop and only want to buy it for benchmarking / epenis increasing -> 10900K (Be warned, this laptop will NOT be able to cool down most of these CPU-s (by most I mean that a very few cherry picked silicon lottery chips might be fine). Games with light cpu usage will be fine but games with high CPU usage (Crysis 3, Battlefield 5, Witcher 3, etc) will make this cpu overheat and thermal/power throttle and you will see cpu temps above 90C.

 

Very helpful response. I think I’ll go with the 10700k. I initially wanted the 10900 but wasn’t sure about it in this laptop. Thank you

 

I would wait and see reviews and data before buying. Word is that the thermal solution is being redesigned atm.

 

CPU is hold in place with 3 screws, not as good design as the 4 screw mounting. CPU is also sharing heatpipes with the GPU and heat will be transfered to the GPU and from there to the radiators. GPU will also be heating the CPU due to the shared heatpipes.
It will be hard to even cool down the 10700K but cooling down the 10900K with mere heatpipes is just impossible if you do not underclock. Well yea, games that are not cpu intensive would be fine but the mentioned games will shift it to 90C+.
It might be able to cool it down if you underclock and undervolt

This is just basics physics. These 14nm CPUs were not designed to be cooled with air coolers+heatpipes, they were made to be cooled with water. Even if you use an aircooler you need a cooler big as a mountain.It's not Intel's fault that there are some masochist Chinese engineers who put them in laptops

Be warned that it will even struggle with 10700K if the silicone is not as good as it was for the 9900KS. We just have to wait for user feedback regarding this.

 

Well shoot. I’ve been without a laptop for almost 6 months. I had one of the new GE75s with the 10980HK and 2080 super. It died and so I sent it back and I’ve been waiting for this laptop to be available from HIDEVOLTION. They have an ETA OF July. How long do you guys think it will take to do the cooling redesign?

 

First week of July
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-g-owners-lounge.831618/page-83#post-11024852

 

A few heatpipes were not able to cool down a cpu with outdated design which even a desktop AIO cooler has problem doing so ?

I am shocked

14nm is just too old, it was never meant to hold 8 or more cores. Not to mention that Intel is using a design where they put new layers of transistors on each other and they heat up each other making the cpu warmer.
Intel even messed this design up with 8750h processors and the cpu die was not flat and had a small tumor in the middle which made it hard for users to use Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut.

I wonder how they will redesign the cooler. If they do so, but I doubt because that would add to much extra production cost. 1 month is not enough to design a brand new compatible cooler, test it and mass produce it. Not to mention it would be pretty expensive.
The cheapest thing they can do is to find the lowest most stable voltage for the processors and factory undervolt them.

Clevo messed up the layout of the cooling system. They should have used a similar design as the P870 and combining it with the MSI gt76 cooling design. They should have used 2 separate vapor chambers with more heatpipes and fans blowing outside the back and sides. Laptop manufacturers also forget that they should run the heat pipes into the radiators for better heat dissipation but instead they just glue the pipes on the radiators.

 

Tripod mounting setup isn't at all optimal for even contact and pressure distribution, just ask brother @Papusan - Biggest problem with heatpipes is their length and that the CPU heatsink is a copper block instead of a vapor chamber and the resulting delay in thermal transfer. It was discussed this earlier in the thread I believe. Anyway, they are adding an additional 700g of cooling/mass, so hopefully a separate vaporchamber for the CPU to reduce hotspots and temperature spikes. 10700K should be equivalent of a lapped 9900Kx, which runs <80c 5Ghz in the P870 with a vapor chamber.

 

How the hell they are doing that ?
There is just not enough time to make a better cooling system. At least a proper one.
They can glue some extra heatpipes to free spaces but that can really backfire and drop the quality significantly.

Even if they properly redesign the heatsink the engineers and testers need to pull an all night shift and there will be supply issues at launch because there won't be enough heatsink produced so many users might have to wait weeks until their order ships.

 

They could keep the overall design and swap the copper CPU baseplate for a vapor chamber. But who knows, we can only wait and see what they come up with. Necessity is the mother of invention.

 

Only my Laptop scores.

Thanks good sir.

 

People complain too much about 10th gen 10 cores chips. If 9900K was possible to cool down then you should be able to run a better binned chips with ok results https://www.tomshardware.com/features/overclocking-intel-core-i9-10900k

“Intel’s 14nm++++++ (or whatever the current joke is) process is as refined as 110 octane fuel. The Core i9-10900K comes with more cores than the 9900K, overclocks better, has a stronger memory controller, runs cooler, and it’s priced handsomely. There is everything to like about these chips”

 

Except the fact you need a new motherboard for LGA1200

 

I know my friend

The cooling ain’t worse on “10th gen” Clevo laptops.

 

Mosfets on the 2080 model.

Idk, I am hopeful but I've heard otherwise, not to mention, if they are working on the cooling, how they gonna ship them out so fast in mass production unless this cooling upgrade was already planned.

 

Partly why I recommend to wait and see before jumping on these

 

This was from HID asking about enhance cooling.

I checked with Clevo and got this reply: “X170SM-G just has a better fan with anti-dust build up channel.”

I’m not sure if they’re just restating current components or saying they are going to use a better fan.

I preordered anyway. If a new one is better later I’ll get it later.

 

Origin for whatever reason didn't make it clear that all X170 orders are *Preorders*. So they don't have them currently. Others will have them all around the same time.

 

This is why bro I personally believe the GT75 is a superior machine to the GT76. Ok the i9 9980hk is BGA but @Papusan would you rather have a top of the line bga i9 with 8 cores and 16 threads or a soldered graphics card. I know I'd choose first option. I hate BGA don't get me wrong but if it comes to it I'm taking that mxm slot everytime!

 

It will give the longest life typically for gaming.

 

I’ve been looking at the new Sager for computing power.
My thoughts would be the 10900k, 2070 GPU and 64Gb Ram.
No gaming, just running programs.
What do you guys think? Or should I go with a slower processor?

 

What programs are you using exactly? If it’s something that can take advantage of the 10 cores then the 10900K is definitely gonna be the way to go.

 

Usual photoshop, acrobat, 20 chrome browsers, and Jarvee with about 200+ accounts.

 

Photoshop alone makes the 10900K worth it if that’s what you use for work. From what I’ve read that’s CPU intensive.

 

Yeah. I don’t run many programs, but they are processor intensive.
Also, don’t know if it’d be better to get the 2060 GPU, instead of the 2070. I really don’t need a powerful GPU since I’m not gaming.
What do you think?

 

That would definitely be up to you. If you’re not going to be gaming at all and all your programs are CPU intensive then you can put the money saved into more RAM, Storage, or have a nice date night.

 

If 9900K was possible to cool down then you should be able to run a better binned chips with ok results

Well thats it, the 9900K was barely possible to be cooled down in RTX laptops.

Clevo P775TM, MSI GT76, Alienware Area 51m all struggled.

MSI GT76, AW 51m have much better cooling than the P775TM due to the better fans and more heatpipes, however even those sometime have trouble during cpu intensive games and the core temps can jump up to 90C (most of the time it stay around 80C).

Well the P775TM has a pretty outdated cooling solution, it is a miracle that Clevo even supports 9900K to be put inside it.
I have tried 9900K in my P775TM and it was a no go. I underclocked to 4.4 Ghz and undervolted as much as I can but it still reached 85C during the CPU test in Fire Strike which is a pretty short test and gives even lower temps than the actual temp during a cpu intensive game. I have not even tried a game because the temp would have reached 90C without a doubt.

Some people might consider 90C during gaming to be "fine and acceptable" but not me. 90C can damage hardware components during long term usage.

The only 9900 cpu which can produce acceptable temps in a P775TM is the 9900KS combined with liquid metal.

Seeing test results the 10900K has better silicone than the 9900K, however due to the extra 2 cores it still produces about the same temps as a normal 9900K. (94C temp during stress test with a high quality AIO water cooler). Seeing this temp result and considering my past experience I can for sure say that the 10900K will overheat in a laptop.

10700K is perfectly enough for gaming and this one might produce acceptable temps during gaming. Only in gaming, no matter what extra cooling Clevo will add, even a 10700K will jump to 100C within seconds if an FPU stress test will be started. It is impossible to cool down 180W CPU with just heatpipes...unless you throw away the warranty and mod the cooling for direct die cooling and remove the IHS and apply liquid metal.

Well yes 1 out 10 9900K cpus have as good silicone as a 9900KS, however most people will not win the lottery on their first try.
And yes there is a Clevo laptop which has better cooling than the P775TM and that is the P870 which can produce slightly better temps, however this laptop is not officially supported and only available from 1 seller who only serves a limited group of customers and even that seller has to mod it and apply unsupported software modifications.

So in other words the 9900K can only produce acceptable temps IF you are lucky and in the very few 10% lottery winner who accidentaly got a better than average quality chip AND you combine this rare and hard to get cpu with an expensive and unofficially modded Clevo which is only sold to a limited group of customers.

So yes there is a Clevo laptop which can handle a 9900K during gaming (but it is impossible for it to handle it during stress testing too, it is just physically impossible) but most customers dont have access to that laptop and getting a cherry picked silicon lottery 9900K and getting a 10900K with lower then avarage temp with your X170 order is as hard as winning on a scratchcard on your first try.

So if you want to play safe, buy a 10700K or 10600K.

If you are a gambling man and if you dont mind that in case you dont win the lottery and get the same cpu as everyone else and dont mind that it can damage your laptop because of 85-90C temps produced during gaming, then get a 10900K.

 

If I were you. I would be looking at the nh57/55 instead, the 3950x+2070 model. Much better for cpu extensive tasks, even if you limit it to “just” 3.5ghz all core.

 

New update, test unit revision 2 will be in my hands tomorrow. Maybe will upload test results tomorrow or day after tomorrow. Hopefully they are better than the last one. Let’s just pray this will be the final unit or we might have a third delay.

 

Too bad they don't offer that in x170 build, as the 3950x build is more inferior IMO, also no 4K and no 17, makes it very gimped IMO in areas other than the CPU.

 

You can always get a 4K panel for it, there are 4K 15.6 120hz panels

 

That would be good but anything less than 17 will be hard for me to work on, even 17 is a bit small for me.

Also the build quality from what I saw on youtube review by that OC guy, made me realize it could have been better like x170. So to me it seems like a toy experiment rather than a premium product like x170.

That's why 3950x on x170 with 17" 4K microled would be a winner for me, coz for me multi-cores is much more important. Also I can't help but wonder if 3950x could be fully powered with x170, rather than ECO mode. And that would be even more crazy.

 

This chassis with a lower peak power consumption Ryzen* would have been perfect.

* https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/intel_core_i9_10900k_processor_review,5.html

 

That's what I am wondering, 3950x at full power should still use less power than 10900K, that's why I wanna see that in a laptop like x170.

Also if we are talking about ECO mode, then how about something like 3990x in ECO mode? This is the only one I found:
https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-threadripper-3970x-32-core-efficient-monster-cpu-eco-mode-tests/

 

I agree with the idea that no amount of vapour chamber when limited by the X170's dimensions is going to successfully keep a 10900k at max turbo on a 100%cpu load, but I think recommending a 10600k might be a little short sighted at the moment if only because of the next generation of consoles being 8-core 16-thread equipped.

I honestly believe the minimum core count going forward for any kind of longevity in gaming will be 8-core as game developers are able to leverage the new generation of console's power, and let's face it, most AAA games coming to PC are console ports.

 

Like I said 10600K is currently enough, however if someone got the extra cash to make it more future proof then I would also recommend the 10700K.

 

Still no info regarding this?

So far the only 240 hz 17.3 panel that I found is the AUO B173HAN05.0 (AUO509D) IPS panel. This panel has 10 ms black2white and 16 ms gray2gray meaning that refresh rate is higher, however response time is about the same as the currently used 144 Hz AUO panel which means that ghosting/microstutter can be expected to be seen at gray/snowy areas which can be annoying for games like The Division.

I would be happy also with a 144 Hz panel if Clevo finally would decide to throw out the currently used AUO B173HAN03.1 144 hz IPS panel which has about 10 ms b2w and 18 ms g2g and use the 144 hz IPS AOU B173HAN03.2 panel instead which has 10 ms b2w but 6 ms g2g so some areas would look smoother.
On BIOS side it just an extra line to be added to the white list, so there are no extra production and development cost.

Update:
I have found the answer and I can confirm that Clevo will use the only 240 Hz panel available on the market, which is the AUO B173HAN05.0 (AUO509D) panel with 240 Hz refresh ratge and 16 ms response time.
So far only the Gigabyte Aorus 17 YA used this panel which did not have G-Sync, however Clevo claims that they got it G-Sync certified.

Regarding the 144 Hz panel ... no info yet but I guess they will reuse the AUO B173HAN03.1 one.

 

I also have a question regarding the adapters.
here are the 2x 230W used for the X170:



The question here is that will Clevo include this plastic binding which holds them together by default in every box with the chassis and adapters or Clevo is just using that in house and at expos to show off what we cant have?

Not that its mandatory its just anything free is nice

 

P870TM1 has been officially EOL for a while now, so when the last stock is gone, it's gone for good. And even then, you need the Prema bios to make it shine, so it's a fair to say it's becoming a rare commodity, much like an old muscle car. But it still supports 9900K/9900KF/9900KS and RTX20x0/RTX20x0SUPER with the Prema bios.

The 9900KF I have is a random off the shelf buy and closer to a regular K volt/freq curve wise. So I wouldn't say that purely silicon lottery dictates whether P870TM1 can run a 9900Kx cool, but argue that it's more dependent on the amount of work you put into it, making it work. ie. die lapping and modding the heatsink. Granted this is no longer out of the box performance, but it's way past only "produce slightly better temps". Depending on what your use case is, it is possible to game <70c. But you can certainly overwhelm the thermal solution by stresstesting, but that's a different discussion.

Spoiler

 

Not sure how much you can share, but any pictures/numbers are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

MSI is BGA.... No go! Dell DGFF use own ticking bomb. A lottery. I can’t see better options than Clevo for now.

 

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Yep agreed. Never said the GT76 is perfect, I never even talk about it. My argument has always been that DGFF does not make the A51M worth buying. I had the option of buying one, but never did because I wanted a computer that didn't have the issues A51M has (which are many).

Yep. If you want LGA and socketed graphics, X170 is the ONLY good choice. I'm 100% certain that the A51M R2 will be the best selling DTR in the future though, because marketing is all that matters.

 

You mean 2x280w power bricks. Who do you think this is? Dell?

HIDevolution has that little power brick holder pictured too so it looks like they’re a standard out of the box extra. Nice touch if you ask me.

 

The X170SM-G uses new 280w adapters, 2 of those to be exact, they weight a bit less than the old 230w adapters