**Official Sager NP9270 / Clevo P270WM Owners Lounge**

This is a concern for me, I've already paid, I'm paying interest on the item, through my bank... and I don't have it, and it might not be the best tech when it finally comes out. I'm highly frustrated with Clevo at the moment.

 

Did they actually charge your card, or do you just have a hold?

Or due to ignorance on my part, do you have to pay interest on a hold?

 

#2 in the dreaded marketing scams, IMHO; overclocking.

Overclocking is a hobby and not a mainstream choice of economics or stability. How many overclocked servers or high end workstations do you see in the corporate/real working world? “El Zilcho.” I need to run my business and personal life off of my laptop. I cannot afford a glitch. The whole overclocking comparison is off the table for me. Especially a new $2.5-3.5k piece of equipment. Nothing against overclockers, I just want to compare apples to apples. When the redesigned P270 comes out we can revisit the specs and see what Alien has on the table at that time.

That’s like saying a Ford Fiesta with, nitro, a turbo and blower will beat out a stock Camero with a V6. Your Fiesta may just do that, but parts are falling off your trans and you just melted a set of 12” tires.

 

As far as I know I was actually charged. Foolishly I didn't anticipate super huge beeg delay on the device. I'd still be paying it off anyway. But it's just irksome because I don't have it.

 

Thats a great analogy.... There's a huge risk involved with OC'ing, and its a risk I would rather avoid on such an expensive machine.

I've also grown tired trying to explain the apples to apples comparisons. I just don't have the energy or desire to keep going.

 

There's only a risk if one does not know what he/she is doing. Simple as that

 

This is a huge logical fallacy... Any time you modify something there is risk, experience and knowledge can decrease said risk but it is still there. This would imply that with enough training, all surgerys should be completely free of complications/risk, to use a medical analogy, which is preposterous. For you the decrease in the risk of a failure that comes with the knowledge is worth it, to others that doesn't decrease the potential risks into an acceptable range.

 

You're absolutely right. And as stated above with the car reference... Most insurance companies wont be held liable for any tinkering of cars (ie. turbos etc) because they feel that the structure and integrity of the original engine was jeopardized so if you get in a wreck with your turbo boosted vehicle... you are the one who has the pay out the cost. As far as overclocking your system... i believe if i am not wrong there are more variables that need to be worried about when playing with your computer.... such as power sources if gpu's require more energy etc. Hell if you put in your memory yourself and arent careful for static electricity you are out your memory... I think the poster who originally posted their concerns were just simply trying to say... for the mainstream...maybe not so tech savy consumer what specs match up...of course those who are able to tinker with their system and have done so before, i bet most could turn a toaster into a robot if truly desired.

That being said... AW yes they charge a lot...their warranties seem a bit more inclusive as far as accidental... is there room to upgrade? -shrugs- I see some people talking about it I dont know. Does anyone know anything new about the p270? No not yet.. estimated Q4.. if clevo is smart they will get it out faster. As i have heard from some retailers... some of the machines they got in from clevo (p270), after strenuous 72 hour tests...didnt show any issues...so they were surprised when the whole line was sent back for a mobo redesign.

 

Problem is, you are still thinking from within the "overclocking is very dangerous" box. Isn't turbo boost considered to be OC'ing? Intel, AMD, Nvidia have been using the tech for many years. Many consumer cards come OC'ed from the factory. Let me ask you a question, -
Let's say you have two systems side by side, one OC'ed (without altering voltages and amps), the other one is stock. You fire up some rendering and gaming on both and notice that the OC'ed system is actually running cooler while the stock one is hitting 90C+ on CPU/GPU. Which one would last longer? Here's the trick. Many vendors, would cram powerful ingredients into a small form factor to impress the customers with extra power, but when it comes to real life testing, the average temps during load would go very close to the safe limit if not higher. Here's another trick, most vendors would apply throttling techniques to reduce the heat during load.

So, there's more to it than blind specs comparison. You have to run bunch of tests side by side under various conditions. Simply saying "OC'ing is bad " won't cut it. Fire up Prime95+Furmark, keep an eye on the CPU/GPU clocks as well as temps, let it run for 1hr and you may get a clue.

That's for starters. Here's an example from my experience: Dell Precision M6600 with a 2960XM (stock) vs M18x with a 2960XM (@4.4ghz). Room temp 20C. Prime95 run for 15min. The M6600 hit 95C on the CPU within 1 min and throttled down from 3.7ghz to 2.7ghz for the rest of the test, temps hovering around 85-88C.
The M18x never dropped below 4.2-4.4ghz, temp slowly climbed up to 86C. Which one is more stable on the long run? I don't know. But I do know that in 3 years of owning AW beasts, I never had a dead CPU/mobo (and I once left my machine running Crysis for 2 weeks non-stop, when forgot to turn it off and the entire family went for a vacation. The max temps showed 75C when we got back, lol). At the same time, I had to replace a mobo on our demo X7200 unit, which wasn't even benched or stressed. Not saying the Clevo is less reliable, the point is, you can't claim lower/higher reliability based on general assumptions.

 

I can't see how it would matter to people who don't overclock anyway, I'm sure if this laptop ever gets released, there will be plenty of stock or overclocked benchmarks for them look at, if there isn't, they should buy the laptop themselves and post there own stock benchmarks, the risk is minimal anyway.

Anyway it's a known fact that when you want to overclock a desktop computer you build it yourself with reliable parts, you don't buy a oem computer. It would be nice to know that the parts in this laptop are reliable enough to overclock.

I don't personally overclock myself, have done in the past with no problems at all, who cares whether you run a computer or laptop overclocked or standard, it's up to the guy who owns it, what he do's with it.

Have to agree with Aikimox, parts fail whether they are overclocked or not, I'm looking forward to seeing both types of benchmarks, that's if it's ever officially released.

 

true, for non oc people, a $300 i7 3820 >= $1000 i7 3920XM
$700 -machine price difference, go for better gfx/screen/ssd/wireless

 

How about getting a ES 3920XM for 300-400$ and then selling your OEM 3610QM for 250$ I'd never buy an OEM CPU for benching (did it once and lost about 300$ on re-sale afterwards) Not worth it.

 

That’s what I like about you OCers. You guys are passionate about your hardware hacking and tend to be in-tuned knowledgeable about something you’ve used or fried. And it’s all shared experience/knowledge because you guys are THAT into it. To OC or not to OC. There is no right or wrong. Sometimes part of me wishes there were two forums with the same title but a separate thread for OC issues, comments and concerns. However, the thread would lose ½ it’s input/users and ¾ the knowledge!

Don’t get me wrong, I’m reading your OC stuff, it’s just hard for me to jump in these threads ever 3-4 years and find the actual base comparison reviews and info. And you have to admit that when it comes to OC comparisons there are often times funny areas and sometimes numbers get stretched. You know; “Dude, I overclocked to 5GHZ,” but I my video is artifacting and after rolling back the speed and drivers I found out half my video memory is fried. That said, I do have respect for the knowledgably and lot of you and without you guys OC’ing then the chip manufactures would be pulling the wool over our eyes every time and technology wouldn’t be pushed to where it is today.

It’s all good and keep up the good posts so I can figure out how to get a stable and modest and absolute safe 10% -20% turbo out of MSI Afterburner and P170. Because contrary to my position I will try to bump up the clock on the first OS install for a few weeks – before transferring all the business files. I'm just trying to hold out with the P170 until the P270 gets here. At that time I can revisit all the comparisions...

 

For business use, I'd not only disable any OC'ing, but also disable turbo. Stock clocks don't mean the system is stable. My business machines never hit 70C+ on internal components. So, stock or not, make sure the temps are low even under load.

Another thing is warranty. For a business machine you absolutely need 3 years of next business day support. Imagine a mobo failure, resulting in 2-3 weeks of delays when shipping the beast back to Sager for repairs.

IMHO, if you really need a work horse, it's either HP Elitebooks or Dell Precisions. Just because Clevo puts quadro GPU and hexacore in a laptop, doesn't mean it's a true mobile workstation. There's quite a bit more to it (latency management, quality of soldering and power circuitry components, broadband support, virtualization, ergonomics, etc). And again - NBD warranty. Like you said, you don't want to let a 3k investment negatively impact your business.

 

es/qs huh
just get es 3.0g 8c/16t e5-2687w for $500, with turbo it [email protected] all thread [email protected][email protected]+

 

That's a good plan, if the CPU is supported.

 

this def is beyond my understanding haha. So this means? Sorry trying to comprehend for my own understanding as to what I should get ?? Still thinking i should wait for the p270... but that Aw... is still a major option.

 

Definitely.

However, you missed a rather obvious solution to this. Keep your last Sager as a backup. My trusty D901C sits comfortably in my office. I haven't had one stitch of a problem with it nor with the x7200. And Heaven forbid something does happen to the x7200, the D901C is ready to roll.

NBD! You and I have already talked about the competency of those guys that show up at your office. NBD!

NBD!! How about NBH. With the last model as a backup, I can grab everything off the x7200 drive if needed (it is a mirror after all) or grab it from a backup stored on the network, and be up and running in about an hour... two max.

 

DXG suggests to get a 3Ghz 8 core 16 thread e5-2687W CPU.
With its turbo of 3.3Ghz it equals the power of a 3960X with 4.3Ghz or even more or a 3920XM running at hypothetical 5.8Ghz or more.

 

So, you are saying, keep two systems and be ready to swap them if one fails? That's not very efficient if you ask me. Might as well pay some more and make a cluster, lol.

NBD is always a win-win. If a tech breaks something in the process, you escalate and get 2 things: a better tech and free replacements+upgrades. If he does a good job - everyone is happy. BTW, we had a Dell tech come today to replace a fan on one of the desktops and a mobo on on one of the laptops. Did a great job in 30min - amazing service. Our HP tech is even better, replaced a DreamColor screen (someone complained about a stuck pixel) in 5min. If you have a business, there's no other way. You can play lottery by buying stuff without NBD but one day you'll win big time

Anyway, I don't have a stake in this anymore, and don't care if people buy Dulls or Clevo's. Take this as an opinion of someone who has owned most high-end laptops in the past and went through all possible warranty hassles with various vendors. In the end, I moved to a mac and may never look back, if Apple keeps on raising the bar.

That is, only in apps fully supporting heavy multi-threading. In 90%+ cases the winner will be the higher clocked CPU.

 

what laptops have the Intel Xeon E5-2687W??

 

The P270WM is not a Laptop it is a desktop motherboard in a Notebook housing, a Desktop Replacement.

 

like Akimox said:

a dual core @6ghz is gonna slaughter everything when it comes to simply games, we had this discussion already -
it depends on what you want to do:

If you just play games: save the money from the hex core and get a quad core, you can use this money for better GPUs.

if you encode Videos: there are many programms that support OpenCL or Cuda - if yours does use this technique - you also wanna go with the quad core, because OpenCL or Cuda are gonna destroy the CPU encoding - about 30% faster.

If you do both at once: you wanna get the hex core, because when you do your encoding and play games at the same time the GPU will be maxed out, and the CPU will be bottlenecked by the GPU, so e.g.:

Guildwars (MMORPG) is a badly coded game, (at least the beta was) - there was only one core supported, my hex core desktop cant handle 100people+ on the screen althoug i have a nice GPU, but year - it only uses 1core.
my college has a dual core on 5,5ghz OC - he gets to see the games very fluid - even with a lot of people on the screen.
Crysis 2 - with mods and DX11, he gets just about 30~ fps (barly lol)
i am on 70fps and more, even with all on max, cause crysis uses a better engine.. (because on multicore games the GPU will always be the bottleneck - there are not GPUs that can max out a hex core CPU [in terms of games])

same with Skyrim (my friend has a x7200 and it not very happy about it - but he also got AMD GPU 6970m CF and there the CCC (Software) is not able to handle the menu -> funky lightning)

it really depends on what you wanna do with your beast.


i personally gonna play games and encode videos at the same time, so i will get the hexcore and use 4cores (or 2cores - depends on game) for encoding and the rest will be left for the game and still be enough. so cpu at 95%, most efficiency possible.
i also could get a quad core, OC it and render the videos on my Desktop - but yeah, when somebody buys a 4k Desktop Replacement - then you wanna your desktop to be replaced ...

 

Out of all the Clevo's we've used (10+) over the last 8 odd years, there's been only two incidents, and maybe a total of 4 to 5 days without the unit and that includes shipping from the Midwest to Sager.

Most places I've worked out keep spares all over the place, and in fact, I'm being more efficient by finding a use for my last Clevo rather than stock-piling it in the "Computer Graveyard." Note, this doesn't just go for my lappy, but rather all hardware in the company. There are Dell desktops, IBM lappies, Mac Pros, Mac Book Pros, etc. At our work, people upgrade hardware every 24 to 30 months, and the IT guys mostly keep things around for spare parts for other systems still in operation.

Efficiency must be in the eye of the beholder. As this system works, and downtime for developers is on average an hour or so an incident.

And this is can sometimes be a crap shoot. My guess is, the closer you are to a metropolis area, the better the tech. But in our case, in a town around 250K, it has been hit or miss.

To note, there's no NBD here either, but rather it depends on your proximity to the nearest Apples Store. Instead of NBD, it is LII (lug it in). Since we're so far away from the nearest Apple Store, Best Buy may be an option where we're situated, but since I don't deal in IT, I have know idea if our local Best Buy has the ppl to service Macs, or if they even take them if you didn't buy them there.

 

Also, add if you write software all day and are compiling hundreds of thousands to millions lines of source code or QA software all day and need to run 5 or 6 virtual machines with different operating systems get a hex/octo core. Now, if I only wrote/qa'd games instead of utilities!!

 

i added your quote to my post

i only could think of these things (;

 

Haha, well although the beastly thing I have now is also a desktop replacement notebook, it gets a generous amount of time on my lap before it starts to burn me up....

 

So... any news?

 

nope.

I gave myself an ultimatum. If there is still no news at all by June 1, I'm getting either a 9170 or an aw. Reflexnotebooks (re)sells aw, so I dont have to deal with the horrible customer service.

 

But you will have to deal with the fact that they (as all other AW resellers) have only about 5-10% of a margin to play with. Which means, you will never be able to score a 15-20% discount. As for the customer service, if you're in Canada, I can give you my rep, he can't do more than 8-10%, but at least everything is smooth and fast. As for the warranty, it will have to be Dell regardless who you buy from, and not directly, they use Unisys (outsourcing service provider).

 

Hi Aikimox

I tried haggling with Alienware.ca sales but they only gave me 2% discount and said that's the best they could give me. I guess I'm not good at haggling. Well at the moment I'm just thinking of buying the M18x as I don't have alot of options now. Any suggestions would help.

 

If you can, its probably best to wait. The M18x is a good machine, but Dell is simply too proud of them and is reluctant to budge on the price.

I'm going to hold out and see if Clevo can get something done before the end of the summer, or at least give us an estimated timeframe. If not, then I will start looking at something else.

 

Are there reps that can give you a 15-20% discount?

 

Based on what I've seen posted here so far, that seems to be the exception, and not the general rule.

 

Yeah. I'm part of the Dell Member Purchase plan through my work, and the best the rep I talked to could give me was 2%. Which, apparently is standard for members. I even said "I heard it was possible to get up to 10% discounts" and the guy was like "no."

 

The situation regarding the p270wm is a real shame. I mean, it would have been the BEST laptop available on the market. Clevo are really doing themselves a disservice by not giving any clear information. A lot of people would have held out for it if they at least confirmed it wasn't cancelled.

I guess the laptop was too good to be true :/.

 

so is the p270wm out of production = cancelled? or what, I dont understand.. been waiting for months for this beast.

 

Delayed was the last official word.

You should be able to get a handle on what is going on by going through the thread or pick up the cliff-notes version here - http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...evo-p270wm-owners-lounge-154.html#post8516635

 

The rep who said "no" to you is probably not even from the AW dept. For example, I have an AW rep who offers 8% off on AW machines but nothing on business grade ones. Another rep would grant 20% on all high-end business hardware but has only 2-3% for AW.

 

lol this topic is gone off to getting discount on AW? rofl

 

The only good thing is that by waiting the technology gets better with every month of a new release of this or that. Hell, by the time the 270 gets here it better have full Ivy bridge support and feature set to match as well as the latest SLI configuration that is somewhat future proof. .... It's just too bad there's not a Clevo insider who can shut down the speculation and give us some hard facts to chew on.

 

What do you expect this computer is dead as far as I am concerned. A month, a year, indefinably. By the time this thing comes out I am hoping there will be other things out there to compete with it. The SLI is good and all I am just hoping for more comps with hexa or octa core processors.

Regardless of what this form is supposed to be about it has been very informative on what is out there now, where to get it and which resellers seem to blow smoke up our arses. I hope people keep discussing on here and would like to thank those who have posted on here.

 

I too hope the thread keeps going. I would prefer talking about the Clevo, but they're being so tight-lipped there simply isn't anything to discuss. So we're left with b!tching about AW instead.... Blah!!

 

Rabble Rabble Rabble. Seriously though, the dearth of info, is painful.

 

exactly. when the next sager comes out there must be few things i will be looking for if they want me to purchase it. 17 inch is a must but i would MUCH prefer it to be 18 inch or larger. supporting IVY E that has 16 threads, or the SANDY E 3980x which would possibly also have 16 threads. next is pcie 3 and the latest x79 chipset or better as well as a motherboard that can support more than 3-4 SATA III 6gbps port. and finally, support for both nvidia and amd GPU due to the fact that 7970m out performs 680m, so stop being on the green team and think about your customers please clevo/sagers. and FINALLY, this laptop needs more TDP copper or w/e cooling it needs to OC those processors, if it needs to beat the alienware at 4.5ghz then it will need bigger space which would probably leads to bigger chasis, highly unlikely.


i just hope saying all this would work cause they may not care or even see it.

 

And it needs a better keyboard! (Higher Quality)

 

Ironic that you should mention Ivy E because from my understanding the P170EM is supposed to be rolling into new motherboards with the Ivy support. It’s more of a game of bingo to see what is actually shipped vs. a detailed break out with what you are getting. And it was never clear what may have been available before they canned the production of the P270.

I’ve found over the years that every manufacture that tries to support the leading edge technology has to pick their battles and try to grab the features that are best for their market/consumers. Regardless if it’s a newest video card with promised “shader” technology; a Firewire or Sata port promising XXGbs bandwidth, etc. And now we’re being toyed with a USB3, more efficient and larger on-die graphics processor, etc., etc. A lot of these technologies require the periphery or chipsets to marry the pieces of the puzzle to get it all to work right. And advertised capabilities is always somewhere around 25 – 75% of reality. It’ll be up to the motherboard/pc manufacture to enable or disable the new functions with the appropriate chipsets and drivers. It’s a daunting task for these guys to be forever chasing the bugs and design solutions to make all this stuff work. I doubt they’ll be able to get to 70% of what you asked, and we’ll see. I believe some of the Ivy functions will be crippled/limited on most all laptop releases.

It’d be nice if there was some sort of hardware developers forum that we all could press an ear to or chime in… Just only hope and speculation is all I can do – No German uncle working on the Clevo design team who can get me the inside scoop.

And it would be really nice to see the new Clevo successfully maintain heat and clocks better than an AW.

Interesting.

 

I'm wondering what the odds are that we'll hear something (as in, a rough ETA) before end of June.

 

Personally I am leaning towards a high end NP9170 to avoid having to get a system with Windows 8.............

 

Its a shame the 270 didn't come out when they should've.

Its gonna be pretty hard to find a right time to launch since everyone is expecting more from the laptop when I'm sure everyone would've bought it a few months ago in a heartbeat. (Including me)

At least I got my p170, to hold me down. I don't really need SLI for D3 and LoL