*** Official Sager NP9380, NP9390 / Clevo P370SM, P370SM3, P375SM Owner's Lounge ***

Just as an fyi, www.ninite.com installs popular programs all at once as an automated process.

 

That is an excellent suggestion. I have used ninite before and it works just as described. Great program, my son recently used it when he upgraded his system to windows 8 and it worked like a champ.
I already have a clean install drive image ready to go for windows 8 on my SSD so all my programz are ready to go. All I have to do is compile the drivers into the image with a little, "pre-windows boot up" app that I wrote, and they should all be installed before first boot.

I know this is a little off topic but I have to tell everyone here....I LOVE SSD's. This is my first time using them because they were always so damned expensive but other than a few tweaks that have to be applied to maximize space, they are wonderfully fast. Programming is much easier because task switching is as smooth as silk. Especially so, when going from AutoCAD to SolidWorks and then back again. Python, XML and Eclipse emulation is also as smooth as soft butter on a baby's butt. I can't wait to get this laptop and try them out!

By the way someone on here made a reference to Tom Petty (waiting) and now I can't get that damn song out of my head.

 

Thank you for the suggestion. Since I am not using SLI on this machine I won't need the vbios fix until I need to upgrade in the future. Hopefully by then Clevo would have figured out the vbios issues.
Although, if anyone on here is using Perma's bios mod (not vbios), would you mind telling us how you like it?
Thanks.

 

Zero issues. Perfect SSD. No firmware updates needed. Fast and stuff. Love it. Amazing. Will buy again 11/10.

Also, it was Call of Duty Ghosts.

Battlefield 4 doesn't even use 2GB half the time. I mean it'll "use" 2.2GB most of the time, but 200-400MB of that is usually the second monitor. But geez, Ghosts just gobbles up all 4GB holy meowmix.

 

WOW! 4gb. I know what you mean about the game though. I was playing ghosts on my desktop today after lunch. It is a beautiful game, and I love the premise of this COD, but it is essentially COD:Black ops 2 with a twist. The textures and details are nice, but the mission objectives and game play are kind of the same. Of course, I have not travelled far enough into the game to say too much more about it. I only got to the part in the game where Elias sends you back home into no man's land. OOPS...I should have said spoiler alert!! I prefer playing Battlefield 4. I have everything cranked up to max on both games and I think BF4 looks and plays better. I am sure there are going to be some people on here that are going to chastise me for saying that but, that is just my opinion.

Thank you very much for the info on the drive, too. After I got your post, I ordered the 256gb M5M to use as my game drive. I fell in love with SSD's when I put it in my Desktop last month and I decided to put all SSD's in this laptop too. I got a killer deal on 2 new 256GB Lite-on pulls from Asus laptops, that I am going to use as my boot and data drives. No more HDD's!
Thanks again for the info.

 

No problem! once you go SSD you don't go back! XD.

 

So I've been researching Clevo's for a couple of weeks now and after considering the XMG P703 (P177SM), I've decided that I will probably go for the XMG P723 (P370SM) instead as I think its much better in terms of upgradeability and possibly cooling as well. Not to mention it comes out at about the same price.

So here is the spec that I'm planning to order on the 25th:

XMG P723 17.3" Pro Gaming Notebook
Display
1 x 17.3" (43.9cm) Full-HD 1920x1080 Matte - Without XMG logo £0.00
Graphics Card
1 x NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M 4096MB GDDR5 £195.83
Processor
1 x Intel Core i7-4800MQ Quad Core - 2.70 - 3.70GHz 6MB 47W £110.83
Thermal Compound
1 x Arctic Cooling MX-2 Thermal Compound £0.00
Memory
1 x 8GB (2x4096) SO-DIMM DDR3 RAM 1600MHz CORSAIR Vengeance £44.17
Hard Drive
1 x 320GB SATA-II 5400rpm Seagate Momentus (ST320LM001) £0.00
Optical Drive
1 x Blu-ray Burner/DVD-RW - without Software £36.67
WIFI Card
1 x Intel Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 (with Bluetooth) £17.50
Keyboard
1 x Backlit Keyboard UK English £0.00
Warranty
1 x Standard Warranty : 24 Month Collect & Return (inc parts, labour, support, shipping) £0.00
Operating System
1 x No Operating System £0.00
Office Software
1 x Microsoft Office 365 30-day trial version (only when Windows 7 or 8 is ordered) £0.00
Power Cable
1 x UK Power Cable £0.00

£1,509.00

---

I was also considering this spec:

XMG P723 17.3" Pro Gaming Notebook
Display
1 x 17.3" (43.9cm) Full-HD 1920x1080 Matte - Without XMG logo £0.00
Graphics Card
1 x AMD Radeon HD 8970M 4096MB GDDR5 £0.00
Processor
1 x Intel Core i7-4900MQ Quad Core - 2.80 - 3.80GHz 8MB 47W £249.17
Thermal Compound
1 x Arctic Cooling MX-2 Thermal Compound £0.00
Memory
1 x 8GB (2x4096) SO-DIMM DDR3 RAM 1600MHz CORSAIR Vengeance £44.17
Hard Drive
1 x 1000GB SATA-III 7200rpm HGST Travelstar 7K1000 (HTS721010A9E630) £29.17
Optical Drive
1 x Blu-ray Burner/DVD-RW - without Software £36.67
WIFI Card
1 x Intel Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 (with Bluetooth) £17.50
Keyboard
1 x Backlit Keyboard UK English £0.00
Warranty
1 x Standard Warranty : 24 Month Collect & Return (inc parts, labour, support, shipping) £0.00
Operating System
1 x No Operating System £0.00
Office Software
1 x Microsoft Office 365 30-day trial version (only when Windows 7 or 8 is ordered) £0.00
Power Cable
1 x UK Power Cable £0.00

£1,475.02

---

What do you guys think? Is the Nvidia GTX 780M really worth me sacrificing the 4900MQ CPU, 1GB HDD and paying extra?

The power-book will be dedicated to gaming, gaming and more gaming. Oh and mixing Trance music in Traktor. Stability is what I prefer!!

Cheers, happy to be a proper participant of this forum. Lots of helpful people here!

 

I would go with option 2 because of the faster HDD and CPU (for a lesser overall price) because it's a more rounded system and has very good gaming performance. If you look over at gpuboss.com you'll see that the AMD actually scores higher than the Nvidia in almost every category except gaming.

If you want this rig for gaming, go with option one. The NVidia card will give you better PhysX handling and is more geared for gaming. The only thing I would change with the first option would be the CPU (I7-4800MQ). The base CPU has the same cache and the only performance hike you'll see is with the clock speed. If you want the bump in clock speed I would say change the paste (or re-paste it yourself) to IC Diamond and overclock the I7-4700mq slightly. Then with the money you save get yourself a really fast SSD.
Hope that helps. Good luck.

 

Thanks for your recommendation mate, I was drawn a little to option 2 as well. I've looked all over the net and as far as I can tell AMD is only a couple of frames behind the 780M in most games. In some its even better becase its more stable. Not to mention the temps are lower since it draws less power.

I'm still a bit worried about the driver debacle that AMD had earlier this year, that worry becomes more prominent when I consider that eventually I will be putting in a 2nd 8790M for crossfire. Apparently there are some big issues with that.

 

Go for option 1. The 4800MQ is good enough for bassicly anything. Runs stable at 3.9GHz which is something you won't be able to do with an 4700MQ. I would also get 16GB of RAM (although it's not necessary, but RAM is dirt cheap, so why not?). Also I would definitely get a better HDD.

 

Hmmm... ok well 1 problem with that is the price. £1,500 is the very top of my budget. If I could spend more I'd definitely go for option 1 and add a few more things like bigger HDD and maybe more RAM.

I can always upgrade the GPU, HDD, SSD, RAM and so on later next year... however I don't really plan on upgrading the CPU at all, so I'd rather get the fastest I can now and then just put new stuff in around it.

 

I don't think you will have a problem with the new catalyst drivers at all. I am playing Battlefield 4 and COD: Ghosts on a HD 7770 now and it is gorgeous game play. Besides AMD usually does even better in the 3dmark and 3DVantage Benchmarks when you have a CPU like a I7-4900MQ. You won't have to overclock so your system will stay quieter and cooler. Since you are saving some money by going with option 2, I would get yourself some more RAM in a few weeks when the prices go down really low for Xmas...or even a SSD.

 

Wow ok, now I'm getting really confused lol

I've also heard that the AMD cards have some issues running older DX9 games too, not sure how true that is though.

 

It really depends on who you ask. Almost Everyone's rigs are different. The older drivers did have issues, especially so in Enduro and Crossfirex, but your not running either of those. Enduro is disabled on this system and CF is not going to happen for you, for a long time. Enough time for AMD to fix whatever issues it has with the CF. It is a micro stuttering issue in low FPS games. From what I understand, the new Catalyst Beta 13.11 they have out addresses all these issues. I am running them now and no problems so far...so far. AMD has always been a step behind Nvida in its roll out of new drivers, but AMD always comes out with them eventually. It is more apparent to people that game a lot. For Floating point, Cinemark, and CAD...its solid as a rock.

This is just my experience though. If there is anyone else on here that has AMD cards in their systems, I'm sure they will chime in.:hi2:

 

Ah ok, well as long as I can run the recent games with stability and decent enough FPS at high-ultra settings I'm pretty much set.

I do play a lot of older games too though so thats why I was asking about the DX9 issues.

By the way this will be my AMD GPU in a laptop ever, so thats why I'm quite interested in what it would be like comparing to Nvidia (not a fan to be honest!).

 

I ordered mine with the NVidia card in it because I wanted to try out the 3d vision. If I didn't get the 3d... I would have went with dual 8970M's for roughly the same price. Can't beat the value.

 

My thoughts, the gpu is expensive to upgrade later, and the cpu is also. The rest are easy and fairly cheap to upgrade later. Second, the 4700 is good enough for gaming. The 4800 is better, but certainly no reason to go higher than a 4800. So with that thinking, I would get the 780M, then depending on budget get the 4700 or 4800. The rest can be minimum, then just upgrade them later.

 

Yeah, dual 8970M is where I will surely end up eventually. I think I'm gonna take my chances with all the mixed views going around.

The value/performance ratio of it grabbed me straight away. Now I can even add a 1TB Travelstar 7200RPM HDD

Yeah I dont wanna bother with the CPU again which is why I'm going for the most powerful 47TDP one - 4900MQ. GPU is expensive, but when I come to upgrade it next year it will surely be cheaper.

 

I hate to be a Negative Ned here but I wouldn't assume that, if I were you. I tried upgrading my laptop GPU a year after I got it and it was only $140 less than when I bought it. Luckily I knew how to do it myself or it would have cost more. So, I went on eBay and found the kit on there for a lot less. It ran perfectly for 2 years, and would have kept on working, If I wouldn't have Dropped it. :cry: All I am saying is unless you plan on doing the upgrade yourself, Don't count on the GPU price going too far down in a year. Just look at the GTX680M, for example. it ran about $550 USD when it first showed up in laptops, back in may of 2012, now you can pick one up for about $350 USD. You really saw the price drop in June of 2013 when the GTX 780M came out, but not by much.

The good news is ajnindlo is right. You don't need that much CPU for gaming. Or anything else for that matter. Software has always lagged behind the hardware. Your going to be able to run anything out there on the I7-4700MQ (or the 4800MQ if you wish)even without overclocking it.. Kick-butt gaming is mostly dependent on the GPU. So, you might want to save your money on the CPU and spend it somewhere else. The I7 Haswell is going to be viable for a long time. (fingers crossed.)

 

I'd stick with the 4800MQ since the difference to the 4900MQ is negligible at stock or overclocked.

 

Did you manage to get a stable overlcock on non XM cpu's in any Sager laptop?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

 

I got stable 3.9GHz on my 4800MQ.

 

Talking about Overclock, could you guys please share what Overclock are you using on a dual 780m (vbios from tech inferno). I flashed the vbios but I had never overclocked a gpu before. Thank you.

 

Hmm... ok. So what about the 2MB extra cache? Is that not going to help with multitasking??

All in all I hear ya, you think option 1 (4800MQ+GTX 780M) would be best?? What about if I swap GTX 780M for the 8970M and get a 256MB mSATA instead, is that going to be a better choice?

Of course I'd eventually get a 2nd HD 8970M next year at some point.

 

If all your doing is gaming or 3d Vision go Nvidia. BUT...get ready for a rant now

You can get dual 8970M's for roughly the same price as one 780M (plus $80 or so.) Get rid of the 4800 and get a 4700 instead. (there is no difference in cache between the two, they both have 6.144MB L3) The only discernible difference between the 2 is a 300Mhz bump in the operating frequency, oh...and MAYBE a little more stability if, and only if, you overclock it. The 4900mq and above have more cache, but the cost benefit ratio is so low that it is almost ridiculous to buy it on a budget. Then use the $200 you just saved and get yourself a 256GB SSD. But do yourself a favor and don't order it from the reseller. The drives are much cheaper if you buy them online and you will get the full 3 year manufacturers warranty that comes with most drives, as compared to the 1-2 years that comes with the system. Also, if you're worried about multitasking, get yourself some more ram, in a month or so when the prices start dropping for Xmas, and drop the pagefile down to 1024KB. That will force windows to use the faster and more stable RAM, prolong the life of your SSD and save you some room on the SSD as well.

Well there you have it. There is my rant. You asked and I answered. Hope that helps you make your decision. Please, let us know what you decide on though.

In the immortal words of D2Ultima, " One of these days I'm going to write a post without paragraphs"

 

Ok ok, I've slightly reconfigured it after taking into account your suggestions guys. What do you think??

Can't really get much better on my budget right

XMG P723 17.3" Pro Gaming Notebook

Display
1 x 17.3" (43.9cm) Full-HD 1920x1080 Matte - Without XMG logo £0.00
Graphics Card
1 x AMD Radeon HD 8970M 4096MB GDDR5 £0.00
Processor
1 x Intel Core i7-4800MQ Quad Core - 2.70 - 3.70GHz 6MB 47W £110.83
Thermal Compound
1 x Arctic Cooling MX-2 Thermal Compound £0.00
Memory
1 x 8GB (2x4096) SO-DIMM DDR3 RAM 1600MHz CORSAIR Vengeance £44.17
Hard Drive
1 x 1000GB SATA-III 7200rpm HGST Travelstar 7K1000 (HTS721010A9E630) £29.17
mSATA Drive 1
1 x 256GB mSATA-III SSD SanDisk X110 (SD6SF1M-256G) £145.83
Optical Drive
1 x Blu-ray Burner/DVD-RW - without Software £36.67
WIFI Card
1 x Intel Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 (with Bluetooth) £17.50
Keyboard
1 x Backlit Keyboard UK English £0.00
Warranty
1 x Standard Warranty : 24 Month Collect & Return (inc parts, labour, support, shipping) £0.00
Operating System
1 x No Operating System £0.00
Office Software
1 x Microsoft Office 365 30-day trial version (only when Windows 7 or 8 is ordered) £0.00
Power Cable
1 x UK Power Cable £0.00

£1,484.00

---

 

I would go Nvidia, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

Still, take a look at these two pages:

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M - NotebookCheck.net Tech

AMD Radeon HD 8970M - NotebookCheck.net Tech

Nvidia is obviously better in almost every game.

 

They say there is no graphics switching on this later, the 4600 is always off. What would happened if one or both video cards failed (or you removed them)... Does the cpu kick on with video display?

 

Thanks for the links mate (I've already visited them like 3 times in the past 2 weeks).

Its not necessarily what floats my boat, it's mostly what I can afford and getting maximum value for my hard earned cash.

Personally I'd rather have better storage options (1TB HDD + 256GB mSATA) than go for the overpriced Nvidia GTX 780M just for the gain of 5-10fps. Especially considering the 8970M plays all new games at decent enough frame-rates at high settings, not to mention that I'll be getting a 2nd one at some point in the future as well.


Sent from my baked potato

 

I'd imagine you'll have no video output until you insert another card.

 

Yes the integrated is not hooked into any display outputs.

 

Makes sense. Good luck.

By the way, I have nothing against AMD, it's just that alot of people in the past had problems with AMD cards in Clevo's. Good luck.

 

I guess thats a good reason to consider the P177SM

Yeah, I guess it all depends if I can get any discount from MYsn guys. Maybe I'll be able to add the 780M, but I doubt it. I'd rather spend less if I can.

Plus 2 HD 8970M's is still second best rated GPU setup at the moment according to Notebookcheck so I'll still be very pleased I'm sure.

 

I use 950 on the core and 6000 on the memory (1500 in nvidia inspector, as it's a 4x multiplication). It almost never crashes, and if it does, it's in games like BF4 or CoD: Ghosts which are iffy to begin with. Also, unless running at 99% constant on a realllly hot day on a game that makes your GPU very hot, you won't hit the thermal envelope of 92 degrees with a good paste job. I usually hover around 82 to 86 on demanding games with SLI turned on with 35-36 degrees celcius (over 90 degrees farenheight) ambient room temp with no windows and just a side fan which isn't really that effective at dropping temps by more than maybe 1 degree celcius on my cpu (doesn't even make a dent in the GPU really)

 

Notebookcheck only tests stock cards, so be warned. The 680M SLI barely beats 7970Ms in crossfireX, and the 8970M is essentially an OC'd 7970M; they're exactly the same card, just like my old 280M versus the 285M. OC'd, the 680M SLI is second best, and 780M SLI is king, as far as I am aware. If you're sticking with stock though, go for it. But you're doing yourself a disservice leaving things at stock unless you run into power/thermal constraints, which you won't. These machines are COOL.

 

Actually it avoids enduro so many people consider it a plus.

 

I would actually prefer it to be COOL literally .i.e. low temp, low noise. According to notebookcheck it is HOT-HOT-HOT. the second is only great if taken metaphorically.

 

Well as long as you got on a pair of headphones or if you have a fan next to you or a tv on in the room etc, you won't hear a single spec out of the fans on max. If you are somehow in a power outage and the fans are on max, expect some noise. They're never going to be wholly quiet, but they aren't going to disrupt an air conditioned university classroom or a cafeteria or a home or anywhere that is not devoid of life and technology. No two ways about that one.

 

Wow ok, so there will definitely be some room for overclocking to get that bit more juice??

I've read all over the place that the 8970M runs somewhat cooler than the GTX 780M, which is another plus for the Radeon I think.

That is good as well, I'm sure all that switching is just something to go wrong if I'm honest.

Where did you read that its hot??

All reviews say it runs COOL, apart from if you actually put your face up to the fans at the back... then you might feel the heat a little bit. The areas that need to be cool stay cool (like palm-rest).

 

Thanks a lot D2 Ultima, I'll try this settings.

Edit:

D2, just to be sure. The inspector setup should look like this?

+100 base clock (850 + 100 = 950)
+1500 memory clock?

Should I change something on Voiltage?



Another screen, this one showing the sensors:

 

Hey guys im planning on purchasing the 9380-s within the next few days.


- FREE!!! – U.S. UPS GROUND SHIPPING (Use Coupon Code "FREESHIP" in Checkout) [U.S. Lower 48 ONLY / Restrictions Apply]
- 17.3" FHD 16:9 120Hz "MatteType" 72% NTSC Color Gamut Sager Screen (1920x1080) + 1 x NVIDIA® 3D Glasses (*NVIDIA® GTX 780M required) - [ETA: Nov.5] (SKU - S1R555)
- Sager - 4th Generation Intel® Haswell Core™ i7-4700MQ (2.4GHz - 3.4GHz, 6MB Intel® Smart Cache) (SKU – SPU201)
- - IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU
- NVIDIA® GeForce™ GTX 780M (4.0GB) GDDR5 PCI-Express DX11 [User Upgradeable] (SKU – GPU010)
- 16GB - DDR3 1600MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS) (SKU - S4S822AP)
- Remove All Branding
- 750GB 7200RPM [SATA II - 16MB Cache] (SKU - HDD099)
- 6X Blu-Ray Reader + 8X DVDRW/CDRW Super Multi Combo Drive (Sager) (SKU - ODD084)
- Sager - Intel® Dual Band AC 7260 802.11 A/AC/B/G/N 2.4/5.0GHz + Bluetooth™ 4.0 (SKU - WIFI94)
- ~Windows 8.1 - 64-Bit (64-Bit CD Included) + MS Office 2013 Trial
- Rush Build (Ships in 1-4 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed) (Subject to Parts Availability) [List Unique Delivery Requirements in Comments Box] (XPC Service)

Would get 2 780m's but my current 5 yr old laptop died, so i need something soon, so i plan on just getting 1 then throwing another in 6-12month down the line. When i get some more cash. I plan on putting my own SSD in it when i get the laptop.

I do have one question that maybe one of you can help me with. With my previous laptop i was using an external battery pack for when im not hooked up to a AC outlet to get some more battery life out of it. My old laptop had about 3 hours of battery life and it extended it to 6. I own this one right here http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BB5VQCE/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 it looks like the Sager 9380 has a fourpin connector for the charger and my external battery doesnt have an adaptor for it. Is there any place that sells a adapter that would work? It pretty much looks like this Amazon.com: Patuoxun Power Adapter Cable for ThinkPad X1 Carbon 0B47046 UltraBook PC: Computers & Accessories just with the plug for the 9380. If any of you know where i could find one it would really help me out. Thank you.

 

It's only used on high end sager models that connector so I doubt you will find one, also the stock battery is pretty huge and the power draw can spike every so often quite high so I would not run it off any battery pack fooling the system it is on AC power.

The best bet is to keep a second battery.

 

Thanks for the reply. The external battery wasnt for gaming more for just watching a movie, or browsing the internet from time to time. I drive tractor trailer for a living so im looking for something powerful i can take on the road with me to play with on my down time. Its just nice to pull over find a nice spot and get out of the truck for a bit so i was just looking for a way to get as much life out of it as possible when im not near a outlet. The sager 9380-s looks like it would be the best laptop for what i want.

 

Think I'm not gonna have as much funds to spend this month as I thought, so here is my pre-final config:

XMG P723 17.3" Pro Gaming Notebook
Display
1 x 17.3" (43.9cm) Full-HD 1920x1080 Matte - Without XMG logo £0.00
Graphics Card
1 x AMD Radeon HD 8970M 4096MB GDDR5 £0.00
Processor
1 x Intel Core i7-4800MQ Quad Core - 2.70 - 3.70GHz 6MB 47W £110.83
Thermal Compound
1 x Arctic Cooling MX-2 Thermal Compound £0.00
Memory
1 x 8GB (2x4096) SO-DIMM DDR3 RAM 1600MHz Crucial Ballistix Sport £44.17
Hard Drive
1 x 1000GB SATA-III 7200rpm HGST Travelstar 7K1000 (HTS721010A9E630) £29.17
Optical Drive
1 x Blu-ray Burner/DVD-RW - without Software £36.67
WIFI Card
1 x Intel Dual Band Wireless-AC 7260 (with Bluetooth) £17.50
Keyboard
1 x Backlit Keyboard UK English £0.00
Warranty
1 x Standard Warranty : 24 Month Collect & Return (inc parts, labour, support, shipping) £0.00
Operating System
1 x No Operating System £0.00
Office Software
1 x Microsoft Office 365 30-day trial version (only when Windows 7 or 8 is ordered) £0.00
Power Cable
1 x UK Power Cable £0.00 Edit

£1,309.01

Good thing about getting the Clevo is almost everything can be upgraded later on.

By the way, one review says the build quality can be a bit iffy... like wobbly lid and the grill covering the vents at the back can be pushed in/damaged easily. Anyone had experience with this?? As far as I can tell it wont be MYsn's fault, its just the initial barebones case thats the issue. Also another one was that there is some serious banding issues that can be noticed on the screen if looked closely, not sure if thats to do with the GPU driver or screen itself.

 

Are there any car adapters that would power this laptop?

 

I placed this order today at about 12:30pm. Just got a call confirming my payment and telling me its going to the next stage at 5pm. She estimates it will be to me by the end of next week. So hopefully everything goes good and get it before i go away on the 28th.

 

Congrats on the order! PM your order number and I'll make sure everything is in order for you to alleviate possible delays.

 

Sup, again guys...

About the ACPI\PNPC000\1 problems with windows 8.1

Any news?!?!? I'm searching and testing A LOOOT and nothing works there`s no official driver for it (YET i hope)

 

I PM'd you the order number. Thanks for taking a look.

 

Not a problem, got it and saw you had been working with Josh and John on the order. I shot them your need by date to confirm with them and have them follow up on it. Shouldn't be a problem to meet at all and the ETA Deb gave you should be a safe bet to expect.