*** Official Sager NP9877 / Clevo P870TM-G Owner's Lounge! - Phoenix 4 ***

Most users do not keep sensible data there, but I do, so I couldn't care less about TLC, I need my data to be there reliably. TLC can fail as early as 1-3 years, if you write / compile / download a lot, and that is waaay less than I keep a SSD for.

 

Yes, but you do not represent "Most users". We have literally thousands of TLC EVO SSDs in the field, and our experience is that they do not fail within a year...nor even 3 years. The failure rate is statistically insignificant even beyond 5 years.

 

See my good news in my signature...

 

You have to be a total power user constantly writing data to kill them in 1-3 years and if you do then you will know that's your writing pattern and will get a more durable drive.

 

I agree, I am not the majority, and I agree that TLC should probably do it for most people.

But please listen to this: I had no idea about those things until 2-3 years ago. The main point I'm trying to make is awareness, I think that very few people actually know and understand those things, like usage patterns and such.

At any rate, I don't think that you absolutely need MLC above TLC, but I had the occasion to see an M2 Samsung Pro SSD throttle heavily in my P775DM3-G, so I think that you do need to have a good temp control for the SSD you have

 

Then educate, don't apply your particular situation to all others and take that as gospel.

You basically told that user TLC is never worth considering when most of the time for users it will be the right choice.

 

Congrats!

 

Well, on my side, I want to see less TLC out there, and more low priced MLC, so I do want people to look more after MLC than TLC>

Then again, even for a gamer, how pissed you think one would be to see his SSD failing?

At the same time, another question: Is there a single M2 SSD that doesn't overheat? MLC or TLC?

I haven't seen TLC or MLC wear off so far, but the controllers seem to fail first.

 

I havent had any thermal issues with my 960 Pro, but I'm hardly a power user when it comes to storage.

 

So from what I am gathering RAM wise. Unless I have Prema or some other unlocked bios. I can't set XMP profiles for better memory?

 

I don't usually push for MLC for anything except someone's OS drive. But in that regard I simply suggest the relatively cheap 256GB 850 Pro, and TLC for everything else (excepting maybe a heavy media scratch disk which will be hammered often). But then that drive I expect to essentially never fail a user, and be used in many systems over and over.

You have a P870TM1, which is airflow central. He had a P775DM3 which wasn't.

 

I got my 2TB 960 Pros with the idea that I would be using them in many machines for many years. They will most likely be usable until the next drive interface comes along. By then data will prolly be stored in frickin lazerbeams generated by the gaseous emanations of pixies that live inside a multi-colored cube of light.

 

In terms of the M.2 format, those are the largest and longest lasting you'll get. But so expensive T_T.

 

That is really nice tho, maybe I had a bad sample and they are really solid in general!

 

You can set memory speeds and timings in our normal BIOS by the way.

 

I was meaning more for XMP profiles for say 3000mhz memory

 

XMP in this case is a simple set of speeds and timings, there are no voltage or base clock tweaks like in desktop boards.

 

I understand that part. Just with both laptops I've had. And with the 2 sets of memory I have tried. The XMP profiles are blank. Lol.
I'm at the point i would legit pay for a bios lol

On a side note. I had a fan to come in today to test on the 2nd fin stack of the CPU heatsink . Given you guys talk about air flow throughout the chassis of the laptop.. I'm pondering why mounting holes are there if air is actually moved through that area. But then again like you said Meaker, if I scratch my head pondering something like that, Clevo has a reason . But my ADHD won't let it go lol.

 

While I'm repasting tonight. Here is a few shots of the surface lapped- vacuum solderpasted- NOT mirror finish Shim. Yes it's not mirror finish. If or when I can find someone to sell me a couple of the heatsinks , the next shimming will be surface ground and mirror finished via the surface grinder on the next heat sinks.
Never did I know until I started this shim experiment stuff that copper is a pain in the ass to get perfectly flat. Lol

 

Bro....

Dat dont look like "lapping". Dat looks like it was BUTCHERED.

 

It's down the development timings and also it's very cheap to have those mounts there but if they decide they do want a fan they don't want to re-design everything.

 

"Lapping" is to make as flat as possible. I was assuming that was understood. Dragging "Dat" etching dial across with NO catches means in flat and true. As a true lapping process does not polish the finish unless lapped on a surface grinder. "Butchered" would have been divets, crevices, gouges, burrs etc.

 

Woah, that's kinda true

This is why I don't do this kind of things myself and let a company who knows what they're doing to do their thing

 

Lol... You clearly haven't looked at your Heatsinks copper plate if your think my shim being swirled from ICD7 removal is "butchered"
"Butchered" or not. My temps are phenomenal

 

Surface marks are something the thermal interface material actually deals with very well.

 

Given coppers softness. Anytime you lap, or remove an abrasive thermal paste. Parts of it still remain within the copper. Those etching marks are so very fine that the etching dial picked up no anomalies across the surface. It was ground flat with a 3000 grit lapping disc. Both sides ran over with the 3000 grit silicon carbide disc, then the abrasive 3000 grit copper disc. Meaning I took away with the silicone carbide, then help add some back on a microscopic later with the copper lapping disc.

 

HEHEHEHE!!!

Thats one way to put it.

I hear spackle might be able to span gaps that wide.....

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ZZYQ6E/ref=dp_cerb_2

 

That's what icd7 is. Diamond sand paper in a tube lol

 

My humble advice, but in that case, it'd be best to not use IC Diamond 7

 

I made the switch last night to Kryonaut.
Icd7 was som abrasive that I damn near have a mirror finish on my CPUs ihs lol

 

Why are you using heatsink paste to try to make something flat anyways?

 

I never said I was using heatsink paste to make things flat? Removing the the paste etches and swirls the surface. Diamonds are abrasive dude. So is the paste.
Edited for better understanding.
Diamond powder within the paste is abrasive. Removal of paste creates swirls and etches. Hence my shim looking etched. Now that I'm in the office...
Diamond thermal paste isn't the only paste diamond is found. It's also found in Jewelers lapping paste as well. Which is used for lapping or cutting flat spots on gem stones which is measured per micron for the amount of cutting or flattening.
Copper being as soft as it is picks up and shows marks very easily. It's funny for it being called butchered because you only see what looks like scratches. They are fine , extremely fine marks done with copper lapping to put back some of the copper lost during the silicone carbide lapping which is shown in the pic below. So what you see as "butchered" and "should be left to professional's" I kinda take offense to as there is probably several thousands of dollars in machines I have used to make this shim as flat as possible. Even stated I wasn't going for a mirror finish on this run as from what research I have done makes no difference as opposed to surface flattening. Along with once I can get to my laptop, I'll post some screens of a 2 hour Warframe session of my 8700k @4.8 GHz with fans on automatic with a Max temp between 58-61c (those are the numbers poping in my head from last night's run)

 

This is what makes things flat.

 

I've never managed to make swirls and gouges appear when I'm removing heatsink paste with rubbing alcohol and a paper towel. You are truly talented bro.

 

Using the Arctic clean kit. And testing pressures per shim over a dozen of times will do this. Google it. And again. What you see is swirls. Unless you can zoom microscopically and tell me the pattern , I probably wouldn't use the term gouge.
As a matter fact.. do a search for the icd7 properties and what it can do to the surfaces of a ihs an heatsink. There are posts within Notebook review stating everything I have said. Even ICd has an account here. I have nothing left to prove to you brosedion. My temps are great.

 

I guess it really pays to go with a good OEM to begin with. My 8700k is clocked to 5.1GHZ and sits at about the same temps during long gaming sessions. No dirty hands. No expensive machinery. (accept for the puter itself) Of course I havent popped the heatsink off to see if it looks like someone took a hacksaw to it yet....

 

Well I am certainly proud of you. Didn't know during a gaming session 5.1ghz on a 8700k was needed lol. Shickled tittless for you bro. Then again you probably paid for a SL chip. I don't. I handle my delids myself. As I have several 7700ks 7600ks, 8600k and 8700ks available for me to test on. I was going for an approach that made even a crap chip semi temp tolerant. And that's what I have done.

 

I really wish I could something like this man...

 

Wuuuttt?? Lol

 

I can't delid or lap or such, it is a pain for me

 

I've been around it all my whole life. Especially the machinist side of it .

 

Actually surface marks make close to ZERO difference, at least those types of marks, unless they are deep (like done with a screwdriver), mirror finish makes close to zero difference, dont even waste your time, something you learn when your doing this for more then 10 years.
And yes, ICD does leave marks, we even use it with a dremel to actually polish stuff, its a great polisher, the thing is, those marks might look ugly but they dont actually make anything worse/bad.
I would say the main concern when modding a cooler is making sure the surface makes perfect contact with the HS. We always do the same test, add a small ball type amount of past in the center, bolt it, remove it, look at it, just by looking at how it spreads you can get an idea of how good is the contact.
We´ve pretty much done everything, from adding copper to cutting surfaces.
I can totally understand what you did in your unit, and it makes sense, goes in the same direction of what we try to do and what other forum members have done. And yes, it makes a HUGE difference. Lets just hope that CLEVO starts paying more attention to the coolers finish and properly develop them to assure a perfect contact.

 

Thanks man. Have you shimmed the GPU Heatsinks ? That was next on the list of things to tinker with. But I found last night I have a bigger problem with the GPU heat sink on the slave side. In the pic top left of the sink.. there is an actual lump going inwards..

 

That looks like an issue with an internal strut in the vapor chamber but it's certainly a dent. It will need replacing to put back to normal.

 

Thanks Meaker lol. I'll get in touch with the vendor.

 

Do you happen to know how thick the copper is on the heatsink in this area ?

 

Not very, it's a hollow chamber similar to a heat pipe.

 

Gotcha. Thanks man. Since I've delidded and shimmed my warranty is pretty much shot. So my quest for the vapor chamber heatsink of doom begins.

 

Do you mean copper staining on the heatsinks? I've definitely had that.

If you mean scratches/scuffing on the die, it 100% doesn't if you soak it a bit and gently wipe it off with either an Arcticlean Kit (which gets through it so well it's great) or a plain old isoprophyl (takes longer). I don't remember where it is but I had some pictures of a GPU die so reflective that you could actually see my roof on it after removing ICD on the forum somewhere.

Most people seem to scrub it off like other pastes can do and the diamonds there will cause marks for sure.

 

That's how I was removing it per the way you stated. Allowing the #1 in the articclean kit to sit. BUT upon comparing the new tube of icd7 I received vs the one I was using. (Which was ordered 3 weeks ago) . The consistency of the first tube of paste reminds me of silly putty. Nothing as free forming as the new tube. And the first tube is ALOT grittier than the 2nd .

@Meaker@Sager I got the dent out this morning btw.lol