All Things Android - Apps, Phones, Tablets - Discussion

will they? because they won't have anything anymore from motorola. thats the big question anyway.


on a note, fire people, sell factories, rearrange structure, put talents, R&D got up considerably. If they don't retain the patents might as well fire who wanted that thing.

And if they don't sell part of the patents, there is little profit for lenovo, they get some carrier channels, they already have a phone line, so they already have the ins and outs of the business

 

Motonovo? Lenorola?

 

Lenola Motorovo. Like the name of the ugly girl no one want to be friends with. :cry:

 

Actually, contrary to first reaction, Google isn't taking a "huge loss" on Motorola. Google keeps Motorola's patents, which is what it wanted in the first place. Google netted $2.3 billion from spinning off the Motorola Home division, got more by selling Motorola's manufacturing capacity to Flextronics, etc, etc. If the patents are given a $5.5 billion valuation (on the high end, I think), Google actually made a profit on the entire Motorola transaction.

Lenovo's also getting a great beachhead into the US smartphone market, where it basically has 0%. So all in all, a win-win.

 

there is no such thing as win win situations, I and several other economists are still hunting the idiot who came up with that

I disagree, the sales are going to include the patents, the question remain will for that price google maintain/share the patents?

and google bought motorola for 12.5bi, accounting inflation, talent hunting, along with restructuring costs, they will have at least a loss of 2bi

Lenovo on the other hand is buying left and right to get those sales contacts. They have purchased, badly (very very badly actually), CCE. Its a brazilian brand of electronics, the profit? none. IBM had already a very large presence in our market, getting those contacts in the retail? not worth it.

Their problem? Selling more than 10 notebook models, to which the only decent ones are the yoga and at 2x the price of the US market, not worth the purchase.

They don't even sell the Y line here... thinkpads? only older models at incredibly back breaking prices.

Edit: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014...le-samsung-and-the-sale-of-motorola-mobility/

Another take on the Motorola buyout

EDIT: http://arstechnica.com/business/201...will-find-a-new-home-with-android-not-lenovo/

another indication on the loss that they are having

 

You should probably retake economics 101. It isn't a zero-sum game.

 

+1, I took microeconomics last semester. It's still fresh in my memory.

Google is keeping the patents. I don't understand how you can disagree with that unless you have better sources than Forbes or The Verge.

Google Profits Billions With Motorola Sale To Lenovo, Keeps Patents - Forbes

Google sells Motorola to Lenovo for $2.91 billion | The Verge

 

No need to retake economics, game theory is my favourite subject. and I never knew that game theory was taught in economics 101, rather such a measly thing has, usually, a course of its own

that forbes article is just... terrible. the math is just wrong and he knows, and his argument is based solely on that.

The claim of patent value is 5.5bi, and the only sources is a not a reliable one.

Aside that we have that no administrative costs where taken into account. He is the guy who should be having economics 101, because that is actually taught in that course, along with micro 101


BTW no one still knows what is in the deal for the patents. It can be shared or one part took it over the other, it can also be that

this is the only interesting thing, if that is true

EDIT: going back to the claim of 5.5bi in patents worth, lenovo is not only winning in this situation but profiting a lot from it.

EDIT 2: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014...ss-shares-still-up-motorola-lost-384-million/

1.245bi of loss in a year for motorola

 

The author's math is irrelevant. I posted those two sources for the information regarding the patents.
But you're saying we should disregard two reliable sources "just because I feel like it"? Yeah...


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you guys had 2 arguments

1. im a mongrel who don't understand game theory and thus the basis of my argument that the motorola buyout was a loss to google. This argument is corroborated in that thing that forbes published, unfortunately its a dud, much like the article from NYT.

2. google would keep the patents, which are around 17k in total, they are going to sell 2k according to the verge (no mention whatsoever in the forbes article) and they were going license the others to lenovo. here are the problems:

- google filled for valuation of the patents in 5.5 bi, it didn't stick
- the judge determined that in the MS VS Motorola case it was standards essential so a FRAND or RAND deal should be sought..
- which leads us to, the patents that have value there are standards essential

 

Google is pretty smart. They've got some of the brightest minds anywhere working for them. Their stock price is almost $1200usd a share today. I'm not dating that prevents them from making dumb decisions, but I highly doubt they'd take a real loss on this deal. What benefit would they have to losing money? Even though they were clearly in it for the patents. Maybe selling it at a loss means they can make back their money from licensing? Idk. Either way, they wouldn't just throw away possibly billions of dollars just because..

 

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57618135-75/best-buy-slashes-price-of-surface-pro-by-$400/

 

I wouldn't spend 1 cent on a Surface Pro, nice try Fishon.

 

Surfaces run Android now?

 

by that account every major company doesn't make mistakes.

and the patent value is calculated by each year worth of licensing. in the case that I said about MS VS motorola, the latter wanted 4bi for the patents. received 1.8mi. thats basically all the patent worth declared by google.

Im in for people saying that they will incur the losses because of the new relationship with samsung.

 

That's a ridiculous way to value the patents.
Google doesn't need to receive a penny for them to mean that they're valuable, having a large catalogue of patents gives Google more leverage when it comes to cross-licensing and generally defending themselves.

That aside, looking at the patents in the context of other recent large-scale acquisitions, the 6000-or-so ex-Nortel patents went for ~$4.5bn and Google are going to come out of all this with around 15000 patents.
Not to mention, it's highly likely that if Google had tried to acquire Motorola's patents separately, they would've paid a damn sight more than they'll have done this way.

 

no it isnt a ridiculous way to value patents, because thats how you value patents. aka put value in something.

now you cant put value on leverage unless that leverage is used, thus you are attributing value to that, aka monetization or other deals.

17k patents, estimated worth of 5.5bi, a few patents in a trial, estimated worth 4bi, after trial millions.

its not so much in terms of numbers, but rather if they are actually or can be used and if they are or not FRAND patents.

For me the purchase of motorola had 2 reasons:

1) patents

2) motorola

simply they had a very difficult relationship with their major front guy, samsung has 40% of android devices market. And when you start making good phones and launching and causing buzz, along with restructuring, R&D, you invest in the company...

basically it doesnt show to anyone that you just wanted to dismember it and sell it for scraps, much like those acquisitions that were so heavily bombed in the press and by the people, that happened and still happens.

Now if what you are saying to me is that google went for something and them disposed the dismembered garbage with profit be my guest. got tired of this

 

I need an Android tablet. iPad size, not Mini.

What do I get

 

I like the Sony Xperia, thin and water resistant.

But I think you can't go wrong with any Sammy Galaxy.

 

Second vote for the Xperia. Thin, unique, and sexy. And it's not a Samsung. Nothing against Samsung (I own a GS3), but recently I'm becoming more concerned that Android is evolving into a one-OEM market. So when someone else offers a good product, I'm more inclined to go with that for the long-term benefits of multiple OEMs competing.

 

The sheer barrage of Samy tablets is overwhelming but the 10.1 Note appears to be pretty versatile, while the Sony tablet has weaker features...?

 

What do you want to do with it?

 

Androidy stuff to show to others

Also mobile presentations of info related to apps. So notetaking capability MIGHT be useful

 

I suspect any of your options will tick that box.

The Note Pro might be better in that sort of respect as it has a more business-y suite of pre-loaded apps.
Plus you get to look like you're compensating for something

 

Guess my Note 2 has a bit of burn in.. Been noticing it more and more lately. The top of the screen where the status bar normally is has a much bluer tone to it. There's a very noticable line running across the top of my screen. MWC is in a few weeks, hopefully I'll find a replacement!

 

im enjoying whats probably the last update I shall receive on the moto x, 4.4.2 installed today

 

Well personally I like to not compensate but thrust in face.

However it obviously won't be used by me except maybe briefly since generally speaking I laugh in the face of Android. But as long as other idiots are willing to put money into it, I'm fine with aiding that process. So looking for something everyone-friendly, and to an extent more female friendly.

 

Such negativity. Much disappointment. Wow.

 

He bought a Motorola product, what did you expect?

 

I think you forget I'm a MotoDev.

:/

...and a Googler.

 

that means 1 to 2 updates, because that would be what you guys are working right now. which is good; compared to the competition, not great; given the situation fairly interesting to know

 

Fixed that for you.

Aren't those two things unrelated now?

 

Back to previous post, I'm leaning towards the Note 10.1. However does TouchWiz bollox up Android (I know Sony skins are pretty lightweight) on the Notes?

 

TouchWiz is definitely not lightweight, but the Note 10.1 2014 has more than enough processing power to handle it. It does add some nice features to the Note that most tablets do not have, ie multi-window and extensive pen support. If you're going to be taking any notes, the Note 10.1 2014 will probably be the best option.

 

Are those additional features 'normal person usable'?

 

I would say so. I've got similar features on my note 2 and pretty much everything had a little tutorial on how to do it. It's pretty straight forward imo.. I'm sure you could check out a few reviews/vids to find examples

 

Forget which Note I had, but I found it a bit of a gimmick. Guess I'll have to see how things have moved on.

 

Well, the Galaxy Nexus isn't supported anymore because TI isn't going to support that SoC any more.

That's largely why Google went with Qualcomm SoC's, because we have CodeAurora which is contributed to directly from Qualcomm themselves. It contains kernel source that works across every single S4 SoC and newer. It's often a LOT more updated than the stuff the OEM's ship.

Actually, they've always been mutually exclusive when speaking of software.

Ugg boot stomping, pumpkin spice drinking, yoga pant wearing, college girls can figure out TouchWiz... so I think you should be able to handle it.

 

Woah. Don't diss the yoga pants.. Idk who convinced girls that it was socially acceptable to wear them in public, but I salute them. Usually..

 

As I probably mentioned I don't have to be able to use it. I did actually chew out one of the potential users of said tablet for wearing said outfit the other day so OK, I'm sold. Let's buy a couple to start with and see how they cope.

 

Well, by that logic I should be a Touchwiz genius...which I am not.

 

I have no idea what that means.

 

I still think Motorola hasn't made a good product since OG Droid. Prove me wrong.

 

Well you're just wrong. The Moto G is fantastic for its price point.

 

the moto X is another

 

Moto X, arguably... aside from the outdated hardware... is a nice product.

Is that my problem?

 

It's Google's fault...and Samsung's fault.

ERGO, it's your fault!

 

Moto X is just your average smartphone, no outstanding specs worth mentioning. Moto G is...your budget smartphone that isn't a piece of crap. Nothing to write home about. Again, find me a phone that compares to the OG Droid, and you'll convince me.

 

Get them while they are HOT

John.

 

I think the x has "average joe" appeal that the specs jockys tend to miss. Sure it isn't a octo core powerhouse, but the overall experience is great, Motorola's enhancements to Android don't really touch the UI so daily performance is great. Plus those enhancements are legitimately unique.

The form factor is one that is likely inoffensive to many, the customization appeals to many, plus there's that whole "assembled in the US" angle. The latter is important to some folks.

I know what your thinking, why isn't it selling like the OG Droid. I've got several reasons.

*its not a Droid: Verizon s out their exclusives like no ones business...leaving other handsets by the wayside.

*Google/Motorola suck at marketing: I only saw a few ads for the thing, sounds like they ran out of coin in the x's marketing budget.

*Moto Maker being a AT&T exclusive for a while: Not letting the largest carrier in America have moto maker? Crazy, especially if you then wanted them to pimp the phone for you in ads and in store (see "its not a Droid" above)

The Moto G is a very big deal exactly for the reason you mentioned. Most phones it competes with are woefully underpowered and don't provide a comparable experience. Some of those are more expensive than the G.

That can make the difference between someone leaving your platform (because they'll equate it to the poor experience they had on their ultra budget phone) and someone upgrading to a mid-range or high end handset the next time they're looking for a phone.

I sure as hell know that if I were stuck with Verizon Prepaid I'd rather snap up a Moto G (they carry it in the US) than a alternative Android handset.

Believe me, as a OG Motorola droid owner and a disappointed Droid 3 owner, I too have much to hate about Motorola, but it seemed like it was getting its act together.

Hopefully Lenovo will do the smart thing and learn from Motorola instead of pushing their current idea of what a smartphone/tablet should be onto Motorola. The Lenovo tablets have been ho hum plus their enhancements to Android on those looks to be terrible at first glance.

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