Windows 10

Yes, but that was earlier in the Windows 10 Preview. After a few build releases I got fed up with seeing more of the same Windows 8 crap, absolutely loathed the bloated Start Menu's tiled abortion and abuse of pastel candy-puke and white/gray colors like the Windows 8 cartoon bomb. I just decided I was done exploring what Windows 10 had to offer. At that point in time it played nice with aftermarket GPU upgrades and disabling DSE worked exactly the same as Windows 8.X.X does. Hopefully, that will still be true when it goes RTM. I also stopped participating in the Preview because Windows 10 performance was worse than Windows 8, which is frequently worse than Windows 7 performance. It was too discouraging. I still get all of the Micro$haft Insider communications, and those are equally discouraging.

 

OK, great, thanks for the response. Looks like it will likely be possible to disable DSE when the official version launches then. Haha, you definitely don't like Windows 10, I can tell! The only reason I'd move to Windows 10 is DX12, so as long as that performance increase outweighs any other negative performance decrease from using Windows 10 with my system then I'll probably do the upgrade - and then if I don't like it I'll re-image back to Windows 7 using the same Product Key.

In other Windows 10 'news', I e-mailed ASUS to find out if the Xonar U7 soundcard I'm using is going to be supported for Windows 10: they've confirmed with me that they'll be releasing drivers for Windows 10 for their product if it requires it.

 

I really have to wonder where all that starry-eyed enthusiasm for DX12 is coming from. There's been a bunch of claims by Microsoft, and a bunch of completely irrelevant tests on the internet, but at the end of the day it's quite unlikely that there will even be a noticeable performance increase once you start looking at the performance of real games. You'll see a few more fps, if you're lucky, that is, and that's it. That's even before talking about the fact that there are no DX12 games right now, and it will probably be a few years until there are. So who the hell cares?

 

Yeah, I don't know how significant the DX12 performance gains are gonna be, I'll have to see!

 

I agree... I've made a few posts in this thread that echo your sentiments. In the best case and most unlikely scenario, even if DX12 magically exceeds our expectations in terms of gaming, all of the stars fall into alignment, divine intervention occurs, and all of the developers immediately jump on the bandwagon and do everything perfect overnight, it won't be enough of a benefit to make a botched up abortion of Windows OK. As the old saying goes, " You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear."

 

Haha, but look, that's a mighty fine blue purse she's sporting there!

 

The future of PC with Windows10...Can't help if it sounded too personal

Spoiler

If we look into the bigger picture, the updating system that Win10 adopts and make the basic editions of Windows OS not being able to control the update mechanism, moving over to the Pro and Enterprise editions things get normal, granting user access control over the OS, Not anymore like Win7. But again paying for the updates just suck...The future of the OS is hazy and dark, concerning the DigitalMafia style of M$ making the Win10 as the baseline of the future OS and the updates will make the OS versions iterate like the CrApple's ecosystem add the UEFI Class 3 (Maybe 2-3 years then surely this will become the standard) ; Now if we the consider the DX12 in this timeframe - the Post Win10 era, It will be the successor / damnation of the DX11.x, eventually dispose off the Win7, Adding to that the recent keylogging features / nagging update notifs & tbh they basically have every information regarding a particular induvidual (TouchID, Cloud sync, FB, Live accnt requirement, Cortana's user request DB etc), all these things summing up & M$'s unnatural path will be a really huge disaster to the Hobbyist / Enthusiast crowd...On the subject of the control of their PC by the end user, which will not be personal anymore... Performance Notebooks are already dying, thanks to the BGA push by Intel (Even Skylake will offer only S-series of PGA chips on desktops) alongside Nvidia's clockblock...

A longshot, some group must make the DX12 feature port to the Win7, If at all anything happens like that, PC enthusiasts wont even think about this OS.

Edit : More on vehement M$ policies widows365

 

Nothing is ever really free... there is going to be a catch, but we won't know what that catch is until it's too late. The are NOT giving free upgrades to Windows 7 and 8 users out of a spirit of charity or goodwill.

Take a page from the history book... Office 365... Windows 365. There are no free rides... not from the mammary glands of the government, not from Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny, and especially not from Micro$haft. There will be a price, and somebody, probably everybody, is going to pay more for less in the end.

 

Do you mean re-install, or restore from an image? The former will need your product key (unless you're using recovery media that came w/ your PC), but the latter would not.

 

Hey, look, look everyone! Bright shiny object over here!
Free Windows upgrades for (almost) everyone! Hurry!

 

You'd think there's gotta be a catch right!

Well that's good to know, I'd be restoring from an image using Macrium Reflect, so from what you're saying I wouldn't even need to enter a Product Key, because all that info is already included within that image - great!

 

Yup - the image you're restoring is already activated, so none will be necessary.

 

One scary thought that I have is regarding the driver support... What if M$ pulls the strings with hardware manufacturers like Nvidia to stop providing updated drivers to anything older than W8

That would be sad

 

I am telling you, there are so many spies in MS from Apple and google on head-chief positions that their quantity is bigger than others. I can't find a reason why else they frick themselves so hard.
Their forced autoupdate crap is nonsense. This Win10 just told me to reboot for 1 update " Lang pack bla-bla on the first inquiry for x64 systems". It didn't let me to refresh search after I set fast build's ring. So I rebooted for unnecessary update and... none of the elements is working in start menu! Nothing! It clicks but no reaction by OS.
I can't see the list of installed updates, can' uninstall. I gonna dance on MS's bones, that happy I'l be.

 

This thread has turned so sour. You're all just egging each other on and talking about worst-possible-outcome hypotheticals and conspiracy theories. Whats the point in this?

 

Well I for one am willing to hold out my judgement until I try it, I'll try it when it launches officially. Most of the negativity around Windows 10 seems to be around Privacy, Hidden Costs, Control, Performance problems. In terms of Performance problems, has anyone noticed any postive or negative aspects of performance (gaming & other) with regards to using Windows 10 vs Windows 8.1 or Windows 7?

 

The point is the problem. As each iteration of the preview shows itself and as things develop, like the forced updates, the situation itself is just getting more and more sour. Don't you think we would like some sweet news or things to discuss? Now this is a trend all over the net, not just here so apparently they are doing something wrong.

 

... and lame bugs. I understand that it is still Beta stage but the simplicity of current flows and bugs shocks. For example how can we accept bugs with Start Menu is they had over 3 years to create something new instead of "old" Windows 7 Start? That is another proof of "Don't fix if aint broken".

Just updated to the latest Win10 build - same as always. They finally fixed something but miserable in overall situation (they fixed appearing of Task panel from Autohide mode when Firefox opened, had to minimize it before) and they brought new bugs.

Spoiler

 

Well, as you said, its beta - and even more, its a fast ring build. If you want more stable builds, switch to slow. Fast is for more buggy builds, which come to slow only when they are less buggy and patched.

 

It is Fast Ring because it has problems with AMD when in crashes Spartan. I don't have AMD.

 

No, its fast ring because of the problems you mentioned^^ The AMD bug is just one of the issues.

Since the introduction of the fast/slow ring system, Microsoft always released a fast build, which was buggy, and then after a few days/weeks released the same build patched in the slow ring.

 

There are issues with Nvidia and even Intel also.

 

The vitriol being spewed has become so intense that I have questioned my account on these forums.

That moderators would be spewing so much is disheartening.

 

Moderators will still contribute as members. We do not however use our editing powers to steer a conversation or edit it accordingly. Spewing infers that someone is just churning up garbage for the sake of doing so. From what I have seen here this is not the case, the posters so far have genuine concerns. If you see non genuine concerns and true spewing, please report it as that is trolling.

You seem upset the criticism has a bitter tone, all we ask is they give us something to cheer and be kind about. I myself would welcome it with open arms. I even said early on with the new low-no borders of apps that it has helped the non-aero-glass border situation. I will cheer anything positive with this, we all here are begging and pleading to just give us some positives!

 

If you don´t want to see positive things, you will never see them^^ Especially if you just want a Windows 7 clone with more modern kernel.

Also, it seems you disagree with Microsoft not only on the product, but more so with their general policies and decisions (like cloud, more updates etc.). Thats fine if you don´t like this - but Microsoft won´t go back here. The thing is, they need to do this if they want to stay relevant in the business - else they become just a provider of PC software, which is an increasingly smaller and smaller part of the computing world. Face it, the PC segment isn´t as important as it was 10 or even 5 years ago.

Microsoft tries to do a fresh start with Windows 10, taking almost everyone with them, as they really try to appeal to all people (hell, they even brought back the Aero Blur effect for the Start Menu), Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 users alike (maybe even more to Windows 7 than to Windows 8 people) . The constant update policy is a key in they strategy though. As mentioned, they are not going to change that, not by all means. They want people to get Windows 10 and then stay with the plattform, and they don´t want to support 10 year old software versions forever. Thats why the constant updates are so important for them.

 

Everyone knows M$ is playin it's win10 baby as a triumph card & Unike AW / Nvidia who keep track of their consumer base and the user experience makes every post count here at NBR, sadly M$ is not like that & Instead they are going in a controversial path that would never workout for the big shot corp as the user base is what it counts ( Ultimate failure of win8 OS) And nasty things that are born with this $$ strat rather than consumer friendly ecosystem. It's not being negative or positive that's gonna change things.. But accepting all crap that MS pulls out of the update system / < add any excl. feature > is not OK when we are the consumers who are paying for the better UX / features / functionality & being a part of Beta program and feedback is a very important. So letting other users know what Win10 is going to bring to their desks is a much better collective opinion which applies to this NBR forum, the fundamental approach. Look on the brighter side of the situation..

Spoiler: Controversial moves

http://techreport.com/news/27999/windows-10-pcs-wont-need-a-secure-boot-off-switch
http://arstechnica.com/information-...ke-the-secure-boot-alt-os-lock-out-a-reality/
http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/57339-Guide-Way-to-Disable-Keylogger
http://www.pcgamer.com/candy-crush-saga-will-be-automatically-installed-on-windows-10/
http://www.infoworld.com/article/29...-windows-10-advertising-patch-kb-3035583.html
http://www.ghacks.net/2015/05/15/windows-10-home-and-pro-automatic-updates-could-become-mandatory/

It's like not just being a consumer, rather a smart customer.

 

I don't know, I mean moderators are entitled to put their opinion forward just as much as anyone else on these forums I reckon - as long as all views are being allowed to be expressed & discussed fairly on this website then I don't see a problem with it.

 

Look's like calendar UI is updated on lastest fast ring build as well. Not stunning but not bad for who (me) who usually don't bother searching/downloading gadgets.

 

Moderators, as their title implies, moderate. If they decide to go all bonkers with different separation of belief from reality and stoke a fire under people who don't really care about the reality but just want their view to be "right" that is not moderation.

I mean maybe on Stormfront, but not here.

 

Moderators are people too and we are entitled to share our opinions like everyone else. Our job is to enforce the rules of the forum and maintain order, outside of that we are members just like everyone else. Nothing that has been said in this thread violates any forum rules or it would have been addressed.

 

Well, I see your point, but just like any other members, if you don't agree with them then you can have a discussion with them, they don't get to wield some godly ability to be right & correct about everything under the sun at all moments. Prove them wrong, just like anyone else.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/forum-rules.109941/

 

Well, in my view the language is harsh, but it's not personal (Microsoft). If you don't agree with the points made in their post, then you're better off having a direct discussion with the person on the topic of discusssion within the post rather than focussing on forum rules. That's just my view, I can't speak officially for the rules here.

 

You actually hit it on the head @Robbo99999. You can not make a personal attack against a faceless entity. That rule is intended to be used for language towards other members.

 

Yeah, I don't get that either. It's not personal at all, unless someone is looking for a special reason to be offended and independently chooses to personalize it. It's hard to believe that there as some people drinking the Micro$haft Kool-Aid that hard, but they (Micro$haft) need to be held accountable. I'm not giving those losers an inch... they need to obey the wishes of their customer majority and stop trying to ram Metro garbage down our throats. Thankfully, the haters of Windows 8+ app crap and tiled vomit OS are not a minority. Adding a Start Menu to Windows 10 and putting the tiles there is like the ultimate insult for Metro haters, and proof they just don't give a rat what the majority of their customers want. At least with Windows 8+ they could be ignored completely, out-of-sight, out-of-mind, instead of in your face on the Start Menu.

 

I tried checking that but it asks for creating an account. Why would I have to create online account for a calendar schedule?? What next, Calculator?
P.S. I am now switched to the local MS profile.

I use Win10 Tech builds since before such Ring system was even created and never saw a difference in the terms of bugs between Fast and Slow. The only way to get less bugs in terms of updating builds which I noticed is installing them clean (on formatted partition) instead of updating.

 

Why would members who become moderators suddenly lose the right to give their $0.02 cents?
That's would just be a ridiculous requirement.
My $0.02 cents

 

Look at another side of the coin. Windows 10, and other events killing the enthusiast market, just making the PC another device will be the death of this forum and others like it. Gamers, tweakers and hobbyists have supported this culture for a long time. By eliminating these people from the PC environment it could be the death of the PC as we now know it. Will we be relegated to jail breaking our own PC's?

The other hard slap in the face they could take is support that they enjoy from this group. A lot of us are asked daily for PC advice. This both in purchasing decisions if not local support. If they loose the support of this group how many other general consumers that rely on these people will turn their backs as well.

I'll state this again, no one wants a Windows 7 rehash. We all expect a much better UI than that of Windows 7. The only thing they are listening too is how to grab Apple and Google stores revenue. Not the consumers who are actually willing to run their Beta/Preview. This is why people are upset and rightfully so. It is just the third round of slapping the face of the people who are trying to help you.

 

I guess all of that is totally reasonable:

Thats a lot of hate and also conspiracy ("Evil, evil Microsoft wants to take over the world", "Microsoft will lock down all PCs") theory thrown out there. I don´t recognize any other computer forum where I regularly post and read, where Moderators would write posts in this extreme sense of hate. Hate that often isn´t even that related with the topic of this thread (Windows 10), but just the state of the industry as a hole.

1. There is absolutely no proof that Microsoft wants to introduce a subscription model.
2. Neither is there proof they will "lock down" PC like Smartphones. Yes, there is SecureBoot - but thats easily disabled and Linux also boots with Secureboot on (since they work with the Linux distributions)

Most of the hate seems to be related to these two points.

And don´t get me wrong, its not about moderators shouldn´t have their own opinions. Its about how these opinions are going to be expressed.

A much better UI? And that would be? Aero again? Shiny chrome window-borders and 3D effects that blind you?

They made many adjustments based on the feedback. And they did many things many people here (including you) thought would never happen (I think about transparency here).

Try to help them? As far as I am concerned, you never gave them a chance to redeem themself. Remember that?

So far, the only thing they could do in your opinion would be:
a. Reset the UI to Windows 7 and mildly refine it
b. Remove every bit of cloud integration
c. Remove tiles and all other Modern UI components
d. Remain with the old, static upgrade form
e. Give it away for free forever (because if they don´t, they are evil as hell^^)
f. Remove the store

What you would get is a slightly more modern Windows 7, and in mid term, a dead company named Microsoft. Because such a product would not be, in the least bit, be competitive nor future ready. Everyone else (Google, Amazon, Apple) is using the cloud, everyone is building up ecosystems, and everyone else is constantly updating their products (which is essentially what they want to do with Windows 10) - and Microsoft and Windows is being attacked on every front.

What you want them to do is impossible, and would freeze them in the PC stone-age, when the world already has moved past that.

The good thing is, with Microsoft doing everything right here, Windows 10 will be a big success. I guess we will see about that, but different from Windows 8, media and user reactions to Windows 10 so far seem very positive in a huge majority.

 

Some good points in your abc bullet point list (as in I understand what you're getting at). I think it's OK to slag off Microsoft a little though, I mean it's not personal, and often times companies need to be called to account.

Personally, I don't think I'd have a big problem with the change of 'look' with Windows 10, it's something I'd just get used to. What I do find suspicious is that they're offering it for free upgrade from Windows 7 onwards - makes me think what is the catch. Do you think there's a catch?

 

I am always disappointed in Win10 about 3 things:
1. They removed nice features which I liked and used in Windows 7 so that affected my productivity;
2. Current Win10 lacks many obvious (for me) enhancements which I see in numerous amount just on first sight;
3. Privacy concerns.

You may believe MS is following our feedback but:
1. That feedback is followed only if there are many votes for and it takes HUGE amount of votes for smth which MS doesn't want to. Explicitly Aero. I have to search and read feedback to choose what to Plus/Thumbs Up instead of writing my own without wasting time on this.
2... I got a phone call and forgot what I wanted to write
RECALLED! When you launch Win10 for the first time you get fresh look and see every tiny flaw. When you work for some time you get used to it and forget. the amount of time I used for writing numerous feedback was so huge that I could possibly forget about many other things.
Trust me, another reason for why MS can't make it real goof for so long time is because they use it for very log time and got used to everything.

Also, MS narrowed side borders - cool! But I can't live with white opaque top border because I can't get which window is on the top and which one behind - all is white. While with Aero border I easily know which window is on the top.

 

Of course there is a catch: They want all people to move to their newest plattform, so that their other services (Cloud, messaging etc.) will be used by those, and so that they don´t have to support the OS versions forever again. They want to avoid another XP at all cost.

If they would do something more fishy (like charging people after one year of use) they would be burned by all the users and the media. They know they can´t do that. Microsoft isn´t all-powerful anymore, like they were some 5-10 years ago. There are alternatives today.

Fair enough and very reasonable.

I think I have read somewhere (Winbeta I think) that customization options regarding the top border will come in RTM. Which of course remains to be seen. I agree that it would be much better if the top border would be customizable, for example, if you want color, if you want it to be in light or dark theme, or if you want transparency etc. . That was also one thing I didn´t like about Windows 8.1: When you turned the top border into the color black or a very dark grey, you could barely read the title...Hope they provide a full set of options at least in RTM.

 

Good, as long as they don't do the fishy that you described!

 

Can not speak for others but;

So far, the only thing they could do in your opinion would be:
a. Reset the UI to Windows 7 and mildly refine it
Hack the thing to death for all I care, just make it better. And no being different to be different does not always mean better.

b. Remove every bit of cloud integration.
TBH I had not much experience with it but I would be opposed to it being mandatory.

c. Remove tiles and all other Modern UI components.
Allow the OS/UI to run without it as an option sure, I mean they had no qualms with removing gadgets kind of a double standard but then again gadgets were not making them money.

d. Remain with the old, static upgrade form.
Have yet to experience this so I can not say yes or no other than if it is mandatory I am against it. I do not like the idea of this is the UI today but it will be whatever they determine in the future.

e. Give it away for free forever (because if they don´t, they are evil as hell^^)
I have never had an issue with paying. So long as it is reasonable that is. Just a guess but I would think $15 a year would be reasonable. Edit on this one, since you do not know where hardware will go to in the future there should be no restrictions on the OS, RAM or otherwise.

f. Remove the store
Allow removal of the store for those who do not want it on the PC.

Now I did give them a third chance at redemption. I installed Windows 10 on my P79xx. After just a few upgrades I saw they were not listening, at least to the majority of concerns, and removed it. I have too been following the threads and reviews and TBH am still not impressed. Not to say the RTM, if you want to call it that, will not floor me and everyone else. So far though I do not see it going that way.

The jail breaking comment was posed as a question as will it go that far? TBH I do not know but do you for a fact know one way or another?

Edit; in all we as consumers are reasonable. It is our money, time and resources so do it OUR WAY, that is not unreasonable.

 

Cloud is staying. Just because.
Privacy issue? Meh, anyone here have a smartphone that isn't log into Google or apple?

Your PC is becoming your smartphone, so blame yourselves for making smartphone popular.

I only started using smartphone since 10/2014 so I can't blame myself, I tried...

Sent from my 306SH

 

All of them should just a single version as you said before

No more difference between home / pro / enterprise, just Windows 10 period ...

 

Well my guess is that these other sites either don't have power users, aren't discussing Microsoft, are fan boy forums, or simply don't have the vast experience with Microsoft that a number of us have. Or worse, they censor their moderators. My deep hatred for Microsoft goes way back to the beginning of Windows. If I wasn't a gamer, I would run nothing but Linux but since I am a gamer, there currently is no alternative.

No there is no proof but Microsoft has said for years they want to have a subscription model so it's not unlikely.

So you want Microsoft to sign the key that authorizes anything on your machine? I don't know about your way of thinking but my way of thinking is that I want to have control over my machine and not have to deal with Secure Boot (which does, in fact, kill Linux support unless they pay Microsoft to be authenticated - Secure Boot is not currently mandatory which is the only reason you have an alternative operating system option).

It isn't your duty or anyone else's but the admins to tell us how we should express ourselves. As long as we stay within the confines of the rules, we have freedom of speech just like everyone else on the forum. This should be applauded because most other forums take that freedom away from all of their members which is why you don't see certain posts come up on certain other forums.

If you still have concerns about moderators sharing their very valid opinions, we have super mods that you can message at any time or you can bring your concerns up directly to @Charles P. Jefferies but this debate is no longer up for discussion in this thread as it has nothing to do with Windows 10.

 

Those will still exist.

 

Having toyed with w10 for a little while, nr. 1 objection so far is the mutilation of options \ choices \ personal control related to updates. Hopefully this is to cater for the needs of the preview, and they may scale back this 'feature' in rtm or in one of the 10 versions.

 

I'll agree with different versions, at least for now. If there is to be no further nomenclature then hardware restrictions should be removed as this infers the OS/UI needs to work on future configurations and we do not know where that would go.