Windows 10

When everyone is eventually running machines with UEFI Class 3 they will also be able to establish an "expiration date" on computers being able to boot and remotely brick them "in good faith" and as warranted.

 

Thankfully, Linux is finally going mainstream thanks to Steam. People forget that what really made Windows popular back in the early 90's were PC games. Now that Steam is pushing Linux hard and backing it with SteamOS which is Linux based, Windows in 2-3 years should have nice competition for games. I've already started to purchase Steam games that are Linux based.

 

I have too. I always check and hope the game I want is a Linux compatible title. The selection is still not very good, but it is getting better little by little. As far as I know, however, SLI and CrossFried support in Linux is still terrible and until that is fixed I cannot view it as a good solution because I don't do single GPU if I can avoid it. Multi-GPU is so much better that I have totally lost interest in single GPU systems. I don't have nearly as many problems as the people that complain about it. Not sure why, but it almost always works excellent for me.

 

Your statement I put in bold typeface (2nd paragraph), that did strike a chord with me, and I do see some of the similarities you're drawing on, but I do feel that there is a difference. Windows 10 is a different way of getting to know someone than hidden cameras in your home (although bugged telephones is quite similar!) - hidden cameras would feel more intrusive into your home. Argghh, I've said it before, I do think Microsoft have gone too far with the data collection on Windows 10, but I just can't feel threatened by it in the way that I would if I'd found out that my house or telephone was bugged - I think it's because bugging a house or telephone is targeted surveillance at an individual and physically entering your house, whereas for Windows 10 perhaps CCTV would be a more apt analogy (non-targeted surveillance) - of course it does then become targeted if the authorities are after you! I think in truthfulness we already have lots of companies that "know" about us from Google or Facebook, store cards, etc - Windows 10 is another layer on top of this, with access to personal files perhaps being another step on that ladder. Even though I don't like the idea of this, it won't stop me using Windows 10 because I don't feel personally threatened by it, but I do understand the principles you mentioned in your first paragraph - I would like Microsoft to be responsible and tone down their data collecting policies and I'd sign a petition supporting that too.

 

Other than the getting into personal files, the mic and camera I have no real issue with W10. Now if they just make it clear how to either 100% stop these and/or just back off from it that may be ok. The problem with the EULA also is there is no subsections saying the data that is collected only if certain features are enabled. By default if you are in for an ounce you are in for the pound.

 

I can see someone getting into big trouble with Lord Micro$haft turning them over "in good faith" to authorities because a friend or relative (or neighbor) using their network connection, with permission, is doing something illegal while running Windows 10. I can see that someone potentially losing their employment because of wrongful incarceration or incurring a pile of legal expenses to clear their good name simply because some stinking hotshot bastard out to make a name for their self and an example of someone else doesn't care whether or not the person they accuse is guilty of wrongdoing. Even if it gets worked out, who wants to deal with such nonsense? I know I don't want to, and I will do everything within my power to scare off my friends and relatives from using Windows 10 because I don't want anyone I care about to have to deal with it.

Visualize the danger. It's not very hard. I'd really hate to see a good person like yourself regret sacrificing a good life for the momentary pleasure of using a piece of crap like Windows 10 just because it's so nice. I'm using some pretty colorful expressions and worst case scenario examples, but the possibilities are no less real. Each user needs to decide whether or not it is worth the roll of the dice, but I'm not one that likes to flirt with danger where unscrupulous corporate giants and vile government agencies are concerned. I haven't seen any that are good and honorable, so maybe that's why I think the risk is too great.

 

I remember in NJ they said they would never pull you over for no seat belt when they were passing the law. This is one of thousands of examples. The problem is give an inch and they take a mile plus whatever else they can. You have to read the language, it leaves everyone open to horrendous possibilities in the future.

 

Your scenario there in Paragraph 1, that can happen with any OS though right, I believe that illicit activities can already be tracked to a network connection regardless of whether Win 10 is being used - so that could happen even with Win 7 I reckon.

If everyone under the sun started getting implicated left right & centre as a result of using Win 10 - then that wouldn't fly - it wouldn't be able to be used as a means for implicating people, so I don't think the risk is high - loads of people will be using this OS, it couldn't end up like that.

 

Maybe not today or even tomorrow but...........

 

Only now they have files as evidence, collected off of your network, with permission of the Windows 10 user that you had no idea was doing illegal things with their computer on your network. Your name is on the broadband bill, traced to the IP of your residence, and they arrest now and ask questions later. No warrant is needed because the naughty person agreed to on demand search and seizure when they installed Windows 10. And, because that person agreed to a sting operation without any start and finish, they listen to conversations on his laptop mic and know about the argument you had with a spouse or children, and they heard you say, in a voice of rage as you watch the national news, that you wish someone would pound the brains out of that loser President, or you say that you would like for something violent to happen to some other government official. Or, in the privacy of your home, you say anything else they might choose to label as "hate speech" or "inappropriate expressions" and it is captured "in good faith" all courtesy of that digital witch so affectionately known a Cortana. You're a danger to society and yourself. You have to be dealt with for saying those things, and Cortana hears everything you say. You say, "Oh, but Cortana is disabled." Can you prove it? Is it worth the risk?

 

Well, if your unsavoury visitor used your PC that is - Windows 10 is collecting data per PC, not necessarily per network connection. It's still the same risk as using Win 7 in this scenario - except with the added evidence of collected personal files within Win 10. Either way (Win 10 or not), you don't want people using your PC or network connection that you're not confident about - grossly the same risk I reckon.

 

Hindsight is always 20/20 and not everyone is omniscient or omnipresent, LOL. The potential alone is enough to make me say no way to Windoze OS X. It's the thought that counts, but if some folks are OK with it, I will leave it to them to choose. The only downside is that what the majority deems acceptable affects us all. I'm not happy about that part. They can wipe their bottoms using their bare hands all they want to, but I don't want them using my shirt to clean up their hands when they are done, and that's what happens when too many people think something bad is OK.

The only way we can defeat such a monstrosity and tyrannical product is by standing together and forcing it to fail. It's becoming unfortunately clear that we may all eventually suffer the same fate based on the choices of some that don't have a problem with the indiscriminate eavesdropping and data collection.

 

Well, I would sign a petition to have Microsoft tone down their data collecting policies for Win 10 (a supporter), I'm just not scared or riled enough about it to be active on that front, nor to stop using it.

 

Ever had a person sitting next to you on a plane puke in your lap? I have... not fun. But, you sit there for the duration and pretend it's OK, and try to be nice to the person that did it. After all, it wasn't on purpose. But, it's still nasty and you didn't have a choice in the matter. You were in the wrong place at the wrong time. My computer is the wrong place and the wrong time to be exposed to Micro$lop's Windows 10 puke.

True, but how many parents think little Johnny is a good boy and don't have a clue that their precious son, whom they would give their own life for, is a doper? How many marriages have ended because a once trusted spouse betrayed their covenant for the sake of selfish pleasure? How many people have had a lifelong friend they later learned had wronged them is some devastating way, like stealing from them, or something even worse? Sometimes being confident doesn't stop you from being tragically deceived. I have zero confidence in Micro$haft to do the right thing " in good faith" for me, or for you, or for anyone else. They must not be trusted. They are unworthy of our trust and there is nothing they can do, now or ever, to earn the level of trust the Windows 10 EULA calls for.

 

Haha, well, I'd sign an anti-puking petition too!

 

I say why sign a petition today or tomorrow that may be ineffective when you just can force change today? Just do not buy into it is all. As we all know it is allot easier to give away rights than to obtain them.

 

LOL, Windows 10 the Trojan Horse !

 

Forget about petitions. We all know it's not going to make any change on MS's front in this case.

If you really don't care just use the service and forget about it, like most people would do. Many people in thread believe there is danger involved in using the service as is, but we also know statistically the chance of an individual gets hit is low. If you believe the chance is low enough for you to take it, just take it.

Signing your name on a petition doesn't count as "I have done my part". Talking with your money and feet does. (Still useless in the big picture though.)

 

The best way for everyone to do their part is to be openly critical at every opportunity to turn every friend, relative and acquaintance they possibly can against Windows 10 to facilitate its failure and diminish the adoption rate so the OS remains as insignificant as Windows 8. This happened with Windows 8/8.1 and it was a better product than this mound of trojan excrement, so there is no reason it should be any different this time. It deserves to fail miserably. We just have to knock over that pitcher of Kool-Aid before they start drinking it so they can get a good look at, and a strong whiff of the nasty sludge coagulated in the bottom of that pitcher, and they'll be against it for life. We might not be able to fix stupid, but the right amount of bad publicity and security awareness can certainly tank MSFT stock values and rile the investors enough that the goons up in the Ivory Tower terminate Mr. Satya Nadella-Ballmer Redux and effectively put an end to his goofed up delusions of grandeur.

 

Agreed.

At some point there will be a "let them eat cake" moment.
I've had mine and I've been looking into Linux for the first time in my computer life.

 

Linux was my solution well before the RTM. I was only going to try W10 out but since the install and usage went well on my P79 I went hog in on my main system. I would have worked through the rest with M$ on issues but the further I got in on the privacy one the deeper I saw the rabbit hole getting. Again not FUD as to what is happening today with it but where it COULD lead too.

We know what loose restrictions are on the present data collected. How easily that is hacked daily just from the ones we hear about. So do I want my private files and/or work products exposed to this as well? Identity theft is the #1 crime so why not have in those data stores more ammo for the thieves?

Those who say this will never affect me, well they are gathering information that one day may very well effect you. Not that there is not allot out there but I am not adding my private data as well. Those who want to, well you have been warned, over and over again.

 

Yep, I will keep using it, but I won't "forget about it" - I like discussing these issues with you guys!

 

You have no idea how many retarded people are in the Internet who call news about privacy problems of Win10 as cheap press' articles and stupid panic because "nobody cares about your private pictures of alcohol parties and asses on beach".
It makes me facepalm. As someone said: everyone has something to hide. Just someone already understands this while others need to grew up.

 

Well, people can always have fun cracking that uplink and throw alcohol party photos around until they start crying. Those from celebrities would be better.

It remains to be seen how much data Win8 telemetry actually uploads though.

 

Windows 10 automatically sends parents detailed dossier of their children's internet history and computer use

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...d-computer-use-10472226.html?icn=puff-image-6

John.

 

When I was a kid I was terrified of my parents, and I ran to computers because it was the one place that was safe, where I could keep myself

 

So disturbing. I understand keeping your kids safe but outright default spying on them. This is just so wrong in many ways it is just so very disturbing.

I consider myself even tempered overall but I truly feel M$ needs to be put out of business for their fiasco as it is. Not because it is the fiasco it is, but because they are standing behind it!

Edit; What happens when someone in the closet starts getting advertisements, links, emails and the like because now their private files and activities are used for his profile. The rabbit hole just gets deeper.

 

My dad knew way more about computers than me at that time. Poor me.

 

Actually, I think that is really smart. So, finally... we see just one redeeming feature of Windows 10's malware payload, LOL. But, I'm confident there is a third-party application that will do all of that and more, more gracefully, and without sharing it with Micro$lop.

Loving parents that care about how their offspring turn out as adults do not allow their children to have any level of privacy when it comes to the company they keep, the habits they have, what they watch on TV, what they read, or what they do when they are online. I'm not talking about High School Seniors or college Freshmen. If they don't behave right, you give them the choice of either falling in line or booting them out so they can figure out mom and dad aren't as stupid as their peers and educators would have them believe. Children need to have their moral compass programmed by the experienced, level-headed people that love them more than anyone else in the world... mom and dad. This requires guidance, control and accountability, and parents have an obligation to control them and shape them into the kind of decent and respectable adults we need more of in this screwed up world that we are biding our time in. That's what parents are for, and children are incapable of making rationale decisions on their own. Handling them over to the public school system, whacked-out psychos with an agenda, and just hoping they magically turn out OK is part of the reason we have so many problems in the world today.

That's too unfortunate. I was blessed with amazing parents that did all of the right things. A lot of it pissed me off at the time, but that's just part of the deal. I learned how to be an awesome parent because of their example, and now my grown children are able to do the same. This is how we have a good world to live in. Sadly, not every child is blessed with the same kind excellent parents and wholesome upbringing.

 

I agree to a point, the point being you advice the kids from the first login there is nothing private on here that we can not see, but this is not what happens. Even before if the kids were told this they thought themselves smarter. Agreed too is shpuld not be shared with M$.

 

Oh yeah, definitely. Good parents don't "spy" on their kids, just as good technology providers do not spy on their customers. As a good parent, your focus is not trying to catch them screwing up, you're watching their every move like a hawk and correcting their mistakes quickly, so they understand right is right, wrong is wrong, and you make it clear that there is a price to be paid for disobedience. No surprises... full disclosure... compliance with family rules is absolutely required, the same as compliance with company policies of their employer, as well as state and federal laws, is required when they grow up and go out on their own. You trust but verify, insist upon compliance, and lavishly reward good behavior to encourage more of the same.

On topic: Do you think Micro$haft is trying to be our "loving daddy" or trying to catch us screwing up, or just exploiting us for their own selfish interests? I think it is clear the latter is true. The parental control feature is a dangling carrot and shiny lure, just as DX12 is for gamers.

 

The problem with the link is that apparently the parents had no idea of the level of control they would have nor did they or the children realize the level of spying. As far as selfish interests, a big gong there.

I always told my kid and anyone else on my network that there is nothing on their PC that is sacred. You do not like that do not connect to the network!

 

vulcan78, thank you for finding and posting those videos

Here is the original source for those videos, it was 1 long video originally, and hosted by the Pete Santilli Show youtube channel - they host many more such videos, and the guest is Katherine Albrecht.

Katherine Albrecht: Windows 10 Is Full Blown Electronic Tyranny


Vulcan78, would you please pm me the text/links from your deleted post? Thank you!

 

Leo Leporte - The TechGuy
Can Microsoft Access Your Hard Drive With Windows 10?

 

About right, he forgot the "good faith" not being legally compelled.

 

Windows 10 gives me much more storage space available (16GB vs 8GB) on the 32GB eMMC drive in my cheap Acer netbook compared to Windows 8.1 due to no longer needing the WIMboot partition. Extremely useful change.

 

Security Now 519: The Windows 10 Privacy Tradeoff


They start talking about Windows 10 at the start, then move further discussion to the end of the podcast, at 1:02:00

 

Just imagine how child will feel if average Joe father accidentally clicks the wrong button

Spoiler

Spoiler: WAT??!

 

TBH, I have no issues with privacy as discussed. My primary one is accessing local files and folders which is not addressed. There is no need for this at all.

 

You want to know how MS spies about you? Just look how it lets you spy about your children... and multiply on 10.
This is just SO WRONG! Microsoft IS SICK.
And you know what's the worst part in it? That many, probably most parents, will say YAY! Good job, MS! Because intelligence is always a minority in the World. MS prepares the World for themselves where everyone will be adjusted to feel OK for being spied since childhood!

Spoiler

 

To be fair, many parents will like having that level of control over what their kids see online. People have been crying out for enhanced parental controls and filters since the dawn of the internet.

Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk

 

I get all this. But why can't MS leave Home version with all the frill and cloud based tracking to the home version, and leave Pro version well enough alone for productivity and tuning.

 

I will use a quote by Niemöller.
The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum quotes the following text as one of the many poetic versions of the speech

Enforced direct spying is not an object for trade or negotiations.
You can't hide is a shell called Pro because MS already showed their attentions and I am not blind or ignorant to miss it, they practically say "No privacy for everyone but top companies with billions of capital... until we became strengthened enough to deal with these competitors too".
It's either we stop it right now and force to revert or they slowly will do their job.

 

This one will... For sure.

 

All this privacy stuff humours me. I don't care at all. Why? Because the battle was lost decades ago. The American NSA has been spying on everyone and everything that breathes globally for years now. There's no stopping the US government. There is no such thing as privacy if your computer connects online. Full stop. Whether you're using Windows 7, 8.1 or 10 - the US government knows everything about you already, wherever you live.

 

No. There's not enough entropy in the outgoing data for "everything about you", at least not until recent updates.

 

While I don't disagree with the basis of what you're saying, there's absolutely no reason for me to make their job any easier.

To each their own.

 

They've been spying on us Europeans for ages. It's been on the news a lot since the confidential papers were leaked a couple years back. They monitor our phone calls! OK, so it's hyperbole to say they know everything, but they have the capacity and capability to know everything if they so desire.

 

Phone network is a different story. They can easily access all the data you send within that system.

This thread is about PC OS behaviour. In this case the amount of outgoing data is easily measurable. And it has increased significantly with Win10. Alternatively, the gov could sniff via ISPs, which they do (China and Iran firewall systems come to mind, but the US is no exception). However that is not directly related to OS behaviour.

 

Fair enough. You make some good points.

I still don't really mind though. The other negatives of Windows 10 bugs me more - such as the less customisable desktop UI (mostly resolved in build 10525 with the return of customisable title bar colours, though I'd still like to be able to make the metro tiles a different colour to the taskbar, start menu and other UI elements).

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