The ThrottleStop Guide

What's a good way to check if undervolt values are actually applying? I'm running a dell xps 9350 with the latest bios. I got some spare time to test undervolt values, and I've got my i7-6560u currently undervolted at -125 mv on core and cache (the highest that throttlestop seems to allow).

Running prime95 on 4 threads with small FFTs, and my computer has a temp of about 90 C. Switching to a profile with no undervolt increases the temperature by a few degrees C, but I'm not sure if those results are significant. I mean, 125 mv for an undervolt seems insane, and I haven't encountered a single crash yet. I was also expecting cooler temps: around 80 degrees on cpu load only.

I am also running the computer at "Best performance" in power settings. I'm not sure if there's another power setting I should be using.

Any help would be appreciated- Am I doing something wrong, or did I just lose the silicon lottery?

 

Thinkpad E14 here. I can change MSR Temperature offset to whatever I want and it will always take effect.


By default my laptop boots up with 90 degrees as the max throttle temperature. (Hex A=10C, TjMax=100, so 100-10=90C). I can change that value to whatever I like. My settings apply regardless of whether I have Lenovo services (PM, Platform, Intelligent Thermal, Hotkey etc) enabled or disabled, and regardless of what power plan I use.

If I have the Intelligent Thermal Solution enabled and am an balanced, the power slider in Windows will adjust these offsets.

Interestingly after a while, or if I hit too high a CPU Power level, something in either the BIOS or EC suddenly changes and this value throttles to 2E (54 degree throttling temperature). I have to manually go to revert the value.

The behaviour wasn't always like this - in an older BIOS version, the CPU would default to 19 (75 degree throttling temp), and had significantly lower max temps. So a BIOS update may have made the different for you.

On another note @skyh13 I wonder if youc ould help me with manually controlling my fans:

Register 0x2F sets the EC to manual/BIOS control, and 0xCB controls how aggressive the fan curve is. But writing a value of 0-7 in register 2F does nothing, unlike literally every other older Thinkpad. All those tpfancontrol programs use 0x2F to change the fan speed, but it doesn't seem to work here.

 

I think you are right. I have already started working on this feature. It might be a game changer for some people.

On my 4th Gen CPU, changing the temperature target offset in MSR 0x1A2 did not change anything. The CPU ignored this change when in Windows. I just tried this on a 7th Gen desktop CPU and changing that MSR immediately changed the thermal throttling temperature. I used RWEverything and wrote 5 bits of data to that register.

11111b = 31 decimal
100°C TjMax - 31°C offset = 69°C thermal throttling temperature.

Prime 95 should be able to get me up to that temp with the OEM heatsink and fan.



There you have it. Thermal throttling at 69°C. Both disgusting and satisfying to get to the bottom of this crippling feature.

TS is reporting the PROCHOT temperature wrong because it is ignoring the 5th bit that I set in RWEverything. It thinks the offset is 15°C but it is actually 15°C + 16 = 31°C

I see a new TS version in the near future so users will have some control over the offset value.

 

Should I see PKG power supposed decrease as I undervolt? Pre-undervolt and post undervolt performance seems identical, but I do get a instant BSOD if I set the undervolt to something below -130 mv.

It's kind of weird because I finally have time to really undervolt my system and I'm not seeing performance gains for any reason, and almost negligible temperature gains. Hwinfo64 shows that there is some undervolt applied when I click on core info.

 

@unclewebb
Hi unclewebb,

I recently change my laptop to Intel 10th gen i7-1065G7, which is HP Spectre x360 later 2019. I can still use Throttlestop and everything seems to be fine after I re-paste the thermal paste on CPU(I think this action is a must, otherwise it will go to max temp about 3 seconds with the original thermal paste ), but the BCLK is not correctly reported, it is something about 62-63Mhz. I can get the correct value using RealTemp utility. Thus, any idea in it? Or I can change something can get the correct value? Thanks a lot.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/page-1109#post-10996008

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/page-1109#post-10996014

 

Can anyone confirm looking at the below what I should set the Turbo Time Limit and PP0 Turbo Time Limits to for a 9700k, any other settings you can see here that would also improve performance? Ignore the highlighted options, re-using an old screenshot.

 

Hi again!
Let me thank you one more time, the temps are awesome now, and i just lost a bit of score in cinnebench, not much.
Anyway, a few things i would like to mention:

• Went to BIOS, and there is a setting there "CPU power", which i totally forgot about. That ranges from 25WAT to 45. It was set by me a long time ago, to 25. so i set defaults (which i believe is 45).
• you mentioned setting windows power plan to best performance. i slide the bar to maximum performance, the CPU clock instantly hits the max. The speed shift EPP went to 0. I still dont understand why i cant controll that? you said to not check the EPP option on the main screen, why? Does windows perform a better job?
• There is also another software that might be changing something (its at the default settings, i never messed with it much: the omen control center), its at default profile, never tried the performance one, should i mess with it?

During this tests, limits keep flashing red, but i guess its normal because i'm not letting the temperature go too high, so it just doinf its job throtling, right?

log:

Code:

2020-04-08  11:10:08  36.39   73.3  100.0  100.0    29630   67    40   1.0468   39.3
2020-04-08  11:10:09  38.92   34.9  100.0  100.0    29630   74    40   1.1171   24.4
2020-04-08  11:10:10  35.79   98.1  100.0  100.0    29630   84    40   0.7629   47.5
2020-04-08  11:10:11  34.98   91.8  100.0  100.0    29630   82    40   0.8014   47.6   PL2
2020-04-08  11:10:12  33.65   98.6  100.0  100.0    29630   83    40   1.0602   49.6   PL2
2020-04-08  11:10:13  33.69   98.6  100.0  100.0    29630   84    40   1.1224   49.6   PL2
2020-04-08  11:10:14  33.68   98.6  100.0  100.0    29630   85    40   0.7963   49.8   PL2
2020-04-08  11:10:15  33.68   98.6  100.0  100.0    29630   84    40   0.7013   49.6   PL2
2020-04-08  11:10:16  33.62   98.6  100.0  100.0    29630   84    40   1.1277   49.6   PL2
2020-04-08  11:10:17  33.62   98.6  100.0  100.0    29630   85    41   0.8909   49.5   PL2
2020-04-08  11:10:18  33.75   98.6  100.0  100.0    29630   85    41   1.0612   49.6
2020-04-08  11:10:19  33.68   98.6  100.0  100.0    29630   85    41   1.1038   49.5
2020-04-08  11:10:20  33.66   98.6  100.0  100.0    29630   86    41   0.8671   49.8
2020-04-08  11:10:21  33.69   98.5  100.0  100.0    29630   87    41   1.0598   49.3   PL2
2020-04-08  11:10:22  33.61   98.6  100.0  100.0    29630   86    41   0.8518   49.8
2020-04-08  11:10:23  33.68   98.6  100.0  100.0    29630   86    41   0.7052   49.6
2020-04-08  11:10:24  33.62   98.6  100.0  100.0    29630   87    41   0.8890   49.5   PL2
2020-04-08  11:10:25  33.73   98.6  100.0  100.0    29630   87    41   0.9331   49.5   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:26  33.52   99.8  100.0  100.0    29630   82    41   0.9137   45.7   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:27  33.50   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   81    41   0.9382   45.1   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:28  33.52   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   81    41   0.9150   45.0   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:29  33.54   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   82    41   0.9146   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:30  33.54   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    41   0.9135   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:31  33.53   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    41   0.9133   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:32  33.52   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   81    41   0.9136   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:33  33.52   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   84    41   0.9135   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:34  33.52   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    41   0.9432   45.0   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:35  33.53   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   82    41   0.9396   45.1   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:36  33.52   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    41   0.9414   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:37  33.54   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    41   0.9391   45.0   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:38  33.57   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   82    41   0.9388   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:39  33.58   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    41   0.9398   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:40  33.59   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    41   0.9138   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:41  33.59   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    41   0.9135   45.0   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:42  33.61   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   82    41   0.9131   45.1   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:43  33.63   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   81    41   0.9396   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:44  33.60   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   82    41   0.9146   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:45  33.61   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    41   0.9135   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:46  33.60   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   82    41   0.9146   45.0   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:47  33.61   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    42   0.9132   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:48  33.60   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    42   0.9133   45.1   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:49  33.61   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    42   0.9147   44.8   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:50  33.59   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    42   0.9149   45.1   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:51  33.63   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    42   0.9469   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:52  33.66   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   82    42   0.9410   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:53  33.68   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    41   0.9408   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:54  33.70   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    41   0.9392   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:55  33.78   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    41   0.9402   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:56  33.78   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    42   0.9142   45.1   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:57  33.72   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   84    42   0.9398   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:58  33.72   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    42   0.9402   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:10:59  33.76   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   85    42   0.9401   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:00  33.67   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   84    42   0.9399   45.0   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:01  33.65   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   84    42   0.9150   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:02  33.66   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   84    42   0.9403   45.1   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:03  33.67   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   84    42   0.9348   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:04  33.68   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   84    42   0.9395   45.0   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:05  33.66   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   84    42   0.9397   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:06  33.69   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    42   0.9150   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:07  33.69   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   84    42   0.9408   45.0   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:08  33.69   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    42   0.9398   44.8   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:09  33.77   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   84    42   0.9398   45.0   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:10  33.78   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    42   0.9396   44.8   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:11  33.75   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   84    42   0.9351   45.1   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:12  33.77   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   84    42   0.9406   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:13  33.72   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    42   0.9399   45.0   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:14  33.70   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    42   0.9407   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:15  33.68   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   84    42   0.9399   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:16  33.72   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    42   0.9395   45.0   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:17  33.73   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    42   0.9398   45.1   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:18  33.71   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   84    42   0.9149   44.8   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:19  33.73   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   83    42   0.9104   45.1   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:20  33.69   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   85    42   0.9456   44.8   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:21  33.67   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   84    42   0.9398   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:22  33.68   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   84    42   0.9153   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:23  33.66   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   84    42   0.9144   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:24  33.66   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   85    42   0.9399   45.1   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:25  33.72   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   85    42   0.9404   44.7   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:26  33.68   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   84    42   0.9453   45.0   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:27  33.66   99.9  100.0  100.0    29630   85    42   0.9142   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:28  33.67   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9147   45.0   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:29  33.70   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   83    42   0.9106   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:30  33.71   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9408   45.1   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:31  33.74   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   86    42   0.9398   44.8   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:32  33.73   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   84    42   0.9403   45.1   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:33  33.73   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9398   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:34  33.72   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9409   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:35  33.73   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9166   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:36  33.73   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9103   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:37  33.77   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9419   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:38  33.76   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   84    42   0.9148   45.1   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:39  33.77   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   84    42   0.9407   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:40  33.76   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   86    42   0.9403   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:41  33.74   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9374   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:42  33.77   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9366   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:43  33.75   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   86    42   0.9114   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:44  33.75   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9358   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:45  33.77   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9108   45.1   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:46  33.78   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9404   45.0   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:47  33.77   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9406   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:48  33.78   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9365   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:49  33.77   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9108   45.0   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:50  33.74   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9397   44.8   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:51  33.77   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9348   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:52  33.76   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9404   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:53  33.80  100.0  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9364   45.1   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:54  33.78   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9365   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:55  33.86   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9363   45.0   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:56  33.82  100.0  100.0  100.0    27366   85    43   0.9366   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:57  33.81  100.0  100.0  100.0    27366   86    43   0.9348   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:58  33.82  100.0  100.0  100.0    27366   85    43   0.9437   45.0   PL1
2020-04-08  11:11:59  33.80  100.0  100.0  100.0    27366   85    42   0.9357   45.1   PL1
2020-04-08  11:12:00  33.80   99.9  100.0  100.0    27366   86    42   0.9384   44.9   PL1
2020-04-08  11:12:01  36.05   39.8  100.0  100.0    27366   53    42   1.0690   22.4
2020-04-08  11:12:02  40.22    1.2  100.0  100.0    27366   50    42   1.1298    2.4

 

I mean nothing to touch. Dell have capped PL1 and 2 (210w max) for Area-51m. And I mean PP0 Current limit at 300 should be enough. Its just a limit so put it above 300 if you want. Run bencmarks and see if clocks holds without dropping in benchmarks end stress tests. Your max limits is the capped PL1 and 2 (Turbo boost short/Long max) or you reach thermal throttling. Test and test again, brother Want more performance... Increase clock speed.

 

What about the time limit sliders brother for each? Should they remain as they are?

 

Doesn't matter much if PL1 and 2 is equal And PP0 Turbo time limit can be as is.

@unclewebb New Dellbook added into the list of shame! http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-win-update-bios.831450/page-11#post-11002626

 

Thanks a lot. It doesn't matter.

But anyway, this laptop is OK to undervolt and run in about 30W(CPU thermal paste must be re-pasted by liquid metal, but do not do it on your laptop if you do not have experience to do so!). It can unlock the TDP, set everything in TS.

However it must set "Comfort" in the "HP Command Center" in order to turn on the FAN when hot. Except this mode, other 3 modes will not turn on the FAN until it is really hot even though it is THERMAL throttling. HP do something crazy to make the laptop silent.

@unclewebb
I got an idea suddenly that actually all i-Core CPUs are BCLK 100MHz except maybe there is a case for someone to overclock it. However, I do not think there is any case to underclock this BCLK, right? So why not for those CPU, if the BCLK is detected under, lets say, 90MHz, it will be fixed to 100MHz, or adding an option to choose to "fixed" this BCLK or not. Is it a possible way to fix this issue?

 

This is a known problem when running ThrottleStop on the 1065G7 or similar processors. Bugs like this are inevitable when you do not have access to new hardware. I have no plans to fix this bug. The important stuff like voltage control should work on these processors, at least until the next BIOS update.

Yes, you could take a wild guess and round any BCLK that does not look right up to 100 MHz but that would be cheating. A year or two from now if I get my hands on one of these laptops, I will have a look into a proper fix.

 

That's great. Thanks unclewebb.

 

This is awesome, thanks again @unclewebb . I have been testing just about every service and driver and bios version I can to determine what is overwriting that offset with 20 on my laptop, but I've been incredibly unsuccessful in figuring it out. This would.. hopefully.. forcefully work around that.

 

Is there any tips about how to lower VR VCC Temp?
CPU itself run cool (never hit 80 degrees celcius), but my VR VCC temp is super hot (96+ C)

 

Hey @unclewebb
Just like you, I have a single GPU lenovo Y510P. I did some tinkering on the the cooling system which reduced the temps by around 20C.
Now I'd like to unleash the 4700MQ for maximum gaming performance, without running into throttling issues of course.
Would you mind sharing with us the exact settings you use on Throttlestop for this CPU?

 

Hi @unclewebb
how to undervolt an old notebook with i5-2410M CPU?
I would show you a screenshot of throttlestop but I am unable to upload images.

If i'm not wrong, with old CPUs, the undervolt is tied to "set multiplier" which now is not ticked and is set to 29T (what's the T means? ).
However, In the main screen of throttlestop, i see a TRL button instead of FIVR button, there's 4 cores, temps are 54°C and Max 67°C, power 3.6W, C0% 2.3 and PROCHOT 94°C.
in TPL window, PL1 is set to 35 and PL2 is set to 43, neither of them has a tick on "clamp" but "Lock" has a tick. Turbo time limit is set to 28.
PP0 current limit is set to 97 and there's a tick on "Lock". Everything else is greyed out.

Edit: here's the screenshot

 

ThrottleStop allows you to overclock this CPU. Go into the FIVR window and check the Overclock box and set the turbo ratio limits to 36, 35, 34, 34. Any setting higher than that will be ignored. I use a Non Turbo Ratio setting of 1 and an under volt of only 40 mV on the core and cache. You can adjust these two independently on the 4th Gen CPUs. I use my laptop for programming so my voltage settings are conservative. Every CPU is unique so best to test your own 4700MQ.

My turbo power limits are locked by the BIOS to 47W, 58W and 28 seconds. The PP0 Current Limit is locked to 85 Amps. Many OEMs locked things down during this era. If you have good cooling but are experiencing power limit throttling problems, you can try using the PowerCut feature.

When your laptop is idle, set your VCCIN voltage to about 1.75 to 1.80 V in ThrottleStop. Push the Apply button and then check the PowerCut feature and push Apply again. You should see the Lock word appear in the FIVR monitoring table beside your fixed VCCIN voltage. This trick nukes proper power consumption reporting so you can load your CPU with Prime95 and it will barely complain until it overheats. Have fun playing with this wonderful option.

Easy question. You cannot undervolt Intel's 1st, 2nd or 3rd Gen mobile CPUs. The fully integrated voltage regulator (FIVR) was not a feature until the 4th Gen was released. The turbo power limits and the PP0 current limit are all locked by the BIOS so you cannot adjust those either. These 2 core CPUs are not overly power hungry. Even if you found a way to increase the power limits, there is likely no extra performance to be had.

 

oh i understand...sad to hear it, thanks anyway

 

A new ThrottleStop feature is in the final testing stage. Real time PROCHOT Offset monitoring and adjustment for Core i 6th Gen and newer CPUs.

I recently learned that Lenovo has been quietly manipulating this value on their top of the line laptops. A laptop that can run at a maximum temperature of 80°C is a nice feature but it is killing performance without giving users any feedback about what is really going on.

Being able to force the PROCHOT offset variable to whatever you like is ready for testing. A PROCHOT Offset setting of 0 should allow the CPU to get up to 100°C. This is the Intel recommended thermal throttling temperature. A laptop should definitely not be thermal throttling at 80°C.

 

I've finally managed to find a way to change the prochot on my lenovo Y740 via advanced bios menu... But my problem now is not the proc throttling because i change my thermal paste with Grizzly Conductonaut (LM) and now my proc very rarely to touch 80°C, but my VR VCC temp almost always reach 95-96°C, when using TPL 60W (PL1) and 90W (PL2). Its only safe when I use 45W (PL1) and 60W (PL2) value settings.

Is there any value or setting on throttlestop that can lower down my VR VCC temp?

 

Waiting to test this

 

@Krzyslaw - Check your messages. Welcome to TS beta testing.
Have fun playing with this new feature.

I have noticed that some OEMs like Asus are using a lot of PROCHOT offset on their supposedly high performance laptops. I will do a write up in the near future about the voltage regulator temp throttling issues that some laptops are having. Reducing the PROCHOT temperature might have been the low budget way to fix a bad design.

Check the ThrottleStop log for any VR TEMP warnings if you have one of these under designed laptops.

 

Can't wait to read
I usually check using HWinfo.

 

@unclewebb
For First report check PM

 

Thanks for your help. Your testing looks good.





Being able to bump the PROCHOT up from 95°C to 100°C is not a huge deal but this minor change is already showing an almost 10% increase in CPU speed. Imagine the performance difference if this new setting in ThrottleStop allows Lenovo users to go from PROCHOT 80°C to PROCHOT 100°C.

 

Unclewebb may I have permission to test this?

 

@unclewebb May I also test this?

I'd specifically be interested as to how often this offset value is polled and written to (if it is indeed CPU MSR 0x1A2), because Lenovo appears to reset the PROCHOT offset value when a certain limit is reached. During a benchmark, the CPU clock will suddenly lock itself down to 400MHz because Lenovo decided it would be hilarious to reset the CPU PROCHOT temperature to 55C.

Alternatively, is there a way to lock this register, so when the new version of TS starts up, it sets the PROCHOT temperature, and locks it so that the BIOS can't revert it back?

 

Greetings!

First of all, I am still new to this forum, I'm not sure if I posted this question in the right place (hopefully it is, if not please forgive me). Also, I am just started to learn and try tweaking laptop, as I just have my first laptop. I just want it to perform well and last long.

My laptop, Alienware M15 R1:
- i7-9750H
- RTX 2060
- 32GB RAM

I hope someone knowledgeable and @unclewebb can assist and guide me to solve my issue.

Before using ThrottleStop, I used Intel XTU, then when I realized ThrottleStop is much better, I uninstalled Intel XTU and downloaded ThrottleStop. Here is my first issue:
1. I can still find a folder named Intel Xtreme Tuning Utility in my Program Data. I tried to delete it, but it says that OCControl.Service.exe is using it, so I stopped the service and tried to permanently delete it, but it appears again. I'm not sure why I can't delete it, and how to delete it?

I used ThrottleStop (the latest stable version), I undervolted to -150mV and didn't change any default settings in power limit settings. It seemed fine, but I observed that the CPU frequency is low although under stress test (usually below base frequency, without any signs of thermal throttling in HWinfo). So, I was wondering why. I also realized that sometimes the the windows key is kind of pressed and hold, although I didn't pressed the keyboard. For example, when I was typing letter "R", suddenly the "Run Window" appear as if I pressed "Win" + "R", but I didn't. I assumed that the system is not stable, but when I ran Intel Burn Test, my system was stable (but low CPU frequency with no thermal throttling signs as mentioned).

So, I keep searching for solutions until yesterday, I found I forum that kind of my issue. In the forum, the person's issue is EDP throttle in Limit. Only then I checked mine and realized I was having the same issue. One of the person in the forum suggested to change the PP0 to 80 or better 100. Mine is 55 by default, and I changed to 100. After that my system became unstable (I guessed). When I tried to run the TS Bench, suddenly it appears as if I adjust the screen brightness with the control slider appeared on screen although I did nothing. Also, my wireless mouse suddenly lagging. So, I stopped the test. Every time I redo the test, same thing happened. (I guessed system is unstable). So, I change the PP0 back to 55 (default) and reset voltage offset. But it seems that the issue still happening, so I stopped ThrottleStop and deleted it.

I shut down my laptop, switched it on back, and it seems that suddenly my CPU temperature gone high to 90++°C in idle (CPU usage around <20%, battery was charging). So I restarted my laptop. And it just the same. Before I undervolted, the temperature in idle was around 50-60°C. So I shut down. Today, I switched it on again and redownload ThrottleStop. I tried to undervolt to -125mV (to all profile, both CPU Core and Cache), but it seems that I am having the issues as in pictures below:


Profile 1: Performance


Profile 2: Game (Planned to limit multiplier)


Profile 3: Basics (Planned for normal usage)


Profile 4: Battery (Planned for save battery on basic usage, less performance is ok)

Hopefully someone can assist me on how much to undervolt and what settings should I apply for each profile to make it as I wanted.

My next questions:
2. Are the things that happened ( "pressed Windows key", "changes in screen brightness") shows that the system is unstable?
3. Why suddenly my laptop acts weird after I changed the PP0?
4. Why after yesterday, when I plugged in AC charger, CPU temperature goes high (98°C) then goes down to 50-60°C?
5. How to solve the EDP throttle and power limits throttle?
6. If I increase the current to CPU, will it increase my CPU temperature? Any effects?
7. How to know the optimum value to undervolt?
8. How to reduce my CPU temperature? [When I undervolted to -150mV before this, I was able to achieve 37-42°C in normal usage; but CPU frequency is fluctuating, and lower than base frequency]

(Sorry for long post, I just hope everyone can understand what I am trying to convey)

I really hope that someone will really help me. If you need any more details, please ask me.

Thank you very very much in advance!

Edit: My TPL settings (as defaults, nothing changed):

 

I got really frustrated about VR thermal throttling that I get lately... Its very annoying because it happen after I change my TIM to LM... Before that, my Y740 never get hot on VR VCC (SVID)
But now, no matter how much wattage I set on PL1 and PL2, my VRM always reach 90+ degrees C... Unless I downclock my max speed to 3,5Ghz, but I don't want to do that at all.

My cores temp now after changed to LM are always under 80 degrees C.

 

@unclewebb I'm really excited about the new feature, may I test it?, it will improve a lot my Lenovo's laptop performance cause PROCHOT 94 and slow fan curve is not a good combination hehe.
Thank you for creating this amazing software.

 

I played around with RWEverything searching for the lock bit but gave up after one too many BSODs. I am sure I will have another look someday soon.

Does your heatsink also cover the voltage regulators? Would it be possible to add some sort of heatsink or is there not enough room inside your laptop case to do this.

You just bought a new Alienware laptop. If it overheats and does not perform well you should immediately send it back to Dell. Tell them to fix it. If they cannot fix it, ask for your money back.

https://ibb.co/gDfGJzF
https://ibb.co/jTxp9XN
https://ibb.co/gD8BrMt
https://ibb.co/S6zb54Y
https://ibb.co/3Cm71nj

Set the PP0 Current Limit to 256 and set the IccMax limits to 255.75. Setting the PP0 Current Limit to 55 is interfering with your CPU performance. Post a picture of the FIVR window.

 

My 6300HQ just saw a 200mhz jump in average speeds. I had it locked at 2.8ghz and now hovers at 3.0ghz running virtual instruments for audio work. A ~7% bump makes a big difference as I am pushing the CPU to the limit.

Only changes were
- increasing PP0 Current from 90 to 256
- increasing IccMax to 255.75

EDIT - TS bench stays at 2.8GHz which is Intel spec on all cores. But my music applications run 200mhz faster in the real world.

 

Yes, the heatsink is already covered VRM area and i think adding more heatsink is not possible. But I already change the factory thermal pad with Grizzly Minus 8.

What confused me is why after I changed to LM, this problem happen. VR thermal never exist before I use LM on my CPU.

 

Simple solutions are always the best way to handle throttling problems.
Most of these limits are unnecessary. CPUs will thermal throttle if they get too hot. No need to create 10 different reasons to throttle.

Was your new thermal pad the same thickness as the original one? It seems like the heatsink is not making the same contact with the voltage regulators that it used to.

 

Same thickness, and I'm sure it contacted well. I changed the thermal pad long before, not the same time with LM. So I'm pretty sure thermal pads its not the problem here.

Is regedit in windows can cause this problem? Because lately I messed up with power menu in there.

#EDIT:
NVM uncle, I already solved my problem with change thermal pads with the new one.
Seems like the old one are getting dirty and didn't work like supposed to be.
No more VR Thermal alert! Yeayy

 

[QUOTE="Set the PP0 Current Limit to 256 and set the IccMax limits to 255.75. Setting the PP0 Current Limit to 55 is interfering with your CPU performance. Post a picture of the FIVR window.[/QUOTE]

@unclewebb I changed the PP0 and IccMax for both CPU Core and CPU Cache as you suggested. As soon as I changed that:




For profile 1, I was able to get stable 4GHz of CPU frequency.


For profile 2, I was able to get stable 4GHz of CPU frequency also.


Then, just now (after restarted my laptop), I limit the Turbo Ratio Limit to 39 for every core.




For profile 3, I was getting good result. However, is there any settings I can change to further reduce the temperature?


For profile 4, I was getting good result. However, is there any settings I can apply to further reduce the temperature and to have my battery last longer?


Just now (after restarted my laptop), I limit the Turbo Ratio Limit to 35 for every core.


The TPL window, after I applied the changes. However, when I opened the window, the PP0 was 170 (by itself). Yesterday after I undervolted to -125mV, the default PP0 value is 55. Then, when I opened to change it to 256, the PP0 was 170. I'm not sure why, is it like the system try to optimize my undervolt settings or what?

Then, just now I did TS Bench,after setting the Turbo Ratio Limit for profile 2 and 4. For profile 4, everything was fine, no any limits flag. For profile 3, there was some EDP other flag (yellow). For profile 2, it wasn't smooth, the EDP other (yellow and red), the PL2 (yellow and red), and the PL1 (yellow and red) appeared. During this time, the system suddenly became unstable. The screen brightness suddenly changed by itself. So, I stopped the test.


In this image, during the test. You can see there is USB icon on the taskbar which was suddenly appear although I did nothing. Also the screen brightness changed and my wireless mouse was lagging. Also, (after restarting my laptop) I realized that the PROCHOT 100 was unchecked by itself and I was unable to check it until now. I'm not sure why.

Also, should I undervolt the Intel GPU and iGPU Unslice? Should I undervolt more?

Again, thank you in advance!

 

TS 8.75 beta 2
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NF3xMO_u5E4vvCu-Ua8IDcIBxO1OaHO2



Just some early testing of a couple of new features. Being able to control the PROCHOT offset value should make a world of difference to some Lenovo owners. Shame on Lenovo for setting the thermal throttling temperature way below the Intel spec. This version also allows users to access the 0.5ms timer resolution setting. Thanks to @Krzyslaw for the suggestion. This feature might be worth a few benchmark points or FPS or might help smooth out some games. Feedback is always appreciated.

The PROCHOT box is an indicator box. It tells you when your CPU has thermal throttled. When you first start up your laptop, it should not be thermal throttling so this box should be clear. You cannot put a check mark in this box. It will only become checked after your CPU has thermal throttled. When that happens, then you can check this box and that will clear this throttling information from the CPU.

I have no idea what the Alienware software does to your computer. If it was my computer and I found out that it was changing the current limit register, I would delete it immediately. If you are having problems with the PP0 Current Limit randomly changing, try using the ThrottleStop Lock option beside this feature. That should keep the PP0 Current Limit firmly locked at 256 or whatever number you like. You will need to reboot to change it after it is locked.

Battery run time depends on what software you are running on your laptop. You will have to play around with ThrottleStop and do your own testing. I rarely use my laptop on battery power.

You will have to talk to Dell about any problems with your laptop. It might be their software that randomly changes the screen brightness.

As for performance, I prefer using one profile set to maximum performance. If you want to set up multiple profiles and endlessly test different settings then ThrottleStop is the program for you. It seems like you are learning what settings control what.

 

Hey unclewebb,

I noticed that the timer resolution in your image is 0. I am unable to edit mine, its stuck on 15.63, what is the function of timer resolution? Thanks

 

Try setting the box beneath that one to 0. The one that says AC Timer Res [ 0..16 ]. The Timer Resolution box simply reports the Timer Resolution that your CPU is currently using.

This setting changes the Windows timer resolution. Basically how long the CPU works on a task before dumping it and working on a different task. A lower value means the CPU will be switching tasks more frequently. At some point, this might be too much overhead.

The original version of Windows about 25 years ago used a default value of 15.625 ms. CPUs are many times faster so maybe using a lower timer resolution is appropriate for today's speedy, multi core CPUs.

Many games and Google Chrome automatically adjust this setting. Windows compares all of the requests and uses the lowest value.

@Krzyslaw asked for this new feature. Now he can run the 0.5 ms timer resolution without having to use any additional third party software.

 

Thanks for the explanation, I already edited the box below to 0 and still unable to change timer resolution. I'll test to see if changing the AC timer to 0 makes a difference.

 

I couldn't change the name to mine. He didn't fill anything. What can I be doing wrong?

And why saving a copy of the mycrocode does?

 

You need to push the OK button for your change to take effect. Click on the Options button again and have a look to see if the timer resolution changed or not.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Past my bedtime. Maybe it will make more sense tomorrow.

 

Throttlestop shows 17 degrees C difference from MSI afterburmer?

Am running the latest versions of Throttlestop (8.7.0) and MSI Afterburner (4.6.2). Afterburner shows on screen CPU max temp of 72 degrees C and GPU max temp of 72 degrees C.Throttlestop shows for same session/duration a max CPU temp of 87 degrees C and GPU temp of 78 degrees C. So that's a 17 degree difference in CPU temp and 6 degree difference in GPU temp. PC in question is an Alienware m15 running AWCC ( with integral XTU [XTUOC Driver Service] limiting CPU power via AWCC Thermal profiles). why is the temperature reporting so way off??? Without accurate temperature monitoring am unable to set my max (downclocked) TB Frequency to keep thermals under control but also maximise performance..

 

Hello, i have a problem with my Acer Aspire V3-772G laptop using ThrottleStop 8.74. The cpu is 4702MQ with haswell microcode downgrade to v1 in order to unlock full overclocking. The problem is that even though overclocking works, but in order to reach higher than 3.4GHz core frequencies i have to select set multiplier option. If i dont use "set multiplier" and oc frequencies only in FIVR (3.8GHz now) it never goes higher than 3.4 unless i set multiplier in main screen to 38. It wouldnt be a problem, but when i do so, cpu keeps multiplier at max (38) all the time and doesnt go to lower states (SpeedStep and C1 are turned on). And when i use Power Saver option it tends to keep CPU at minimum multiplier of 8 and has pretty slow respond to giving it a load (it takes quite a while to get to performance state and max frequency). My question is it possible to oc higher than 3.4 without using set multiplier iption in main screen or at least make it work more like stock (fast load/states response and performance while keeping cpu at lower frequencies while there is no workload)? Im pretty sure that i missed or simply dont know something. Thank you in advance

PS i couldnt figure out how to get rid of PL2 throttling and is enabling PowerCut possible without changing Vcin? Because i cant enable PowerCut too

 

@unclewebb i have some questions:
1) What's IccMax and what it does? do you suggest increasing this value? if yes, how much? for both core and cache or just for core?
2) What's PP0 current limit? for my I5-8300H CPU it is set to 0 but I noticed that you suggest setting it to much higher values, like 256.

 

Good question. I try not to question the accuracy of other monitoring programs. All I know for sure is that ThrottleStop is an extremely accurate monitoring program. If ThrottleStop is reporting a higher temperature value, it is usually right. Remember to reset the peak temperatures in ThrottleStop before doing any testing so you have a fair comparison. Try turning on the ThrottleStop Log File option while gaming. I guarantee you that this will provide you with an accurate look at what your CPU is really doing.

The Nvidia GPU temperature data comes from the Nvidia GPU driver. I assume that this information is accurate but this is more difficult to prove. Try comparing a GPU-Z log to a ThrottleStop log.

I avoid sharing ThrottleStop's secrets in public forums but here it is. ThrottleStop samples the CPU temperature sensor and the GPU at a much higher Windows's priority compared to most other monitoring software. Why is this important? When a CPU is fully loaded and two different monitoring programs request temperature data, ThrottleStop is always first in line for that information. If the computer is really busy, other monitoring programs might be delayed or completely ignored. When a CPU is really busy, that is when the cores are at their hottest and that is exactly when other monitoring programs cannot compete with ThrottleStop. It is not a surprise to learn that other monitoring programs are missing out on reporting the true peak core temperatures. I would choose ThrottleStop over any other monitoring program if accurate peak core temperatures are important to you.

The MHz that flops around +/- 500 MHz or +/- 1000 MHz every second while gaming is another problem. ThrottleStop does not report that because it is not actually happening.

On a 4th Gen and newer CPU, there is not much reason to do this. When the individual cores enter the core C7 state, they are disconnected from the internal clock and disconnected from the voltage rail so they are sitting at 0 MHz and 0 Volts. If your C states are working correctly, a slow CPU is not required.

Here is my favourite comparison. When idle, fast CPU vs slow CPU. There is no difference in power consumption and no difference in CPU temperatures.



I would never check the Power Saver box but if you still need a slow CPU when idle, try adjusting the PowerSaver C0% variable in the Options window. Using ThrottleStop or Windows to hold a CPU to 800 MHz when it has a task to perform can actually increase total power consumption. CPUs are most efficient when they are allowed to get tasks done quickly and re-enter one of the low power C states.

@Akern - IccMax is the amount of current going to your CPU package. The PP0 Current limit refers to the current going to the individual CPU cores. Increase them all for maximum performance. Leave them alone if your laptop is already running just fine.

 

You are right, even if its sitting at max frequency, power consumption is still like without oc on stock settings. And what about fighting off PL2 throttling? How to properly use PowerCut option? TPL settings seem to do nothing, it still throttles when power usage climbs above 47W or so even if i set limits to 90W (in bios too)

Oh and i forgot to mention that earlier i managed to go around this problem but cant remember how. There was no throttling at all, i managed to squeeze 4.2GHz without much overvolting and still keeping temps normal while reaching performance somewhere in between 4770k and 4790k in benches

 

(not sure if this has been discussed to great extent) PSA: Dell's been disabling undervolting in their laptop with the latest FW upgrades. Link includes the fix.